Dell Griffin Refuted Again.
This is a continuation of our article "Dell Griffin Refuted!"
It is a reply to the reply of Dell Griffin to us.
"Brit-Am": Like it or not there is no other!
Dell Griffin Refuted Again!
Brit-Am is the One Organization that Tells it as it is!
The Brit-Am Rose
Official Symbol of Israel United
The Dell Griffin Dance Encore!
Brit-Am Foreword
We have posted below the response in full of Dell Griffin to our reply to him.
Here and there we have interspersed our own comments and replies to what he says.
Dell Griffin in some peoples opinion may not be worth replying to. Nevertheless he has a following.
In the past he made a contribution to spreading "Ephraimite" awareness. Some of the ideas he comes up also
appear from time to time amongst other "Ephraimities". This alone makes it worth while replying to him and there are other considerations.
Yair,
Again, my
request is for you to publish this response, which
is of necessity rather lengthy, in full. However, I
fully expect you to interject your comments again to
attempt to discredit me. Therefore this will be my
last posting to you, Yair. You simply don't play
fair. Please remove me from your email list until
such time that you come off of your racist position
regarding the identity of the House of Joseph (being
exclusively Britain and the British colonized, USA).
There are a few
more clarifications now necessary because of things
you stated that are not correct in your posting, "Dell
Griffin Refuted." I will be adding this to my
website later today or tomorrow, but wanted to give
you a heads-up beforehand.
By the way, the
reason I no longer use my given birth name is
because of several reasons, which I believe I should
explain to you and hope that you will honor. First,
I made an arrangement with my late father, Dell Sr.,
z"l, shortly before his death in 2006. I realized
that a lot of controversy would surround this name
due to people like you, the Kairites, the
"messianic" Jews, the Trinitarians and Jesus deists
and the corrupt members of the Sanhedrin who I must
also confront and oppose and expose. So I promised
my father, that I would use the name "ben Yoseif"
(simply "son of Joseph") in these endeavors. This
was the name given to my by the Spirit in the bat
Kol of 1994 in which Hashem spoke into my belly
these words:
"You are the son of Joseph, your father. And I
am giving you, your father, Joseph's heart for
his brother, Judah. And I am turning the hearts
of the sons of Joseph to their father, Joseph;
and I am turning the hearts of the sons of Judah
to their father, Judah. Because there was no
enmity or vexation between Joseph and Judah who
were reconciled in Egypt but the enmity and the
vexation is between their sons."
Finally, in
1998, a Jewish friends in Queens, NY advised that I
begin writing with the name "ben Yoseif"
after he found my given name in the
Torah Codes "spells out": "beN yoseiF Yimtzah
yisRael Gam s'guLah ephaDto" and "vayaveiN
vayasaF vaYakum, yisRael Gadol, L'amor avDim". (The
latter is why I suggested the Halachic category for
Joseph's return as AVDIM (servants) at my
meeting with Brit-Am in Jerusalem in 2001.
There is also a third match mentioning Pinchas
but it does not contain as direct an allusion to the
son of Joseph or to "build, gather and raise up"
Israel as these two do. I would ask you to respect
this wish of my father, and also refer to me as "ben
Yoseif" or if you are incapable of doing this,
by any name other than my given birth name.
YD: (a) Dell Griffin says he changed his name due to the wishes of his father and a "voice" spoke to him through his stomach!
Fair enough.
A person can call himsef whatever he likes as far as we are concerned.
The name that Dell wishes us to call him by however is more like a title than an appellation.
(b) DG wants Ephraimites to accept an inferior status.
Dell says,
"I suggested the Halachic category for Joseph's return as AVDIM (servants) at my meeting with Brit-Am in Jerusalem in 2001."
This is against the Bible and against Rabbinical traditions.
When Joseph returns it will be as an equal with Judah (Ezekiel ch.37).
Jewish tradition (as explained by Brit-Am quoting from the Malbim and others) even suggests that at least at the beginning the status of Joseph will be higher than that of Judah.
Apart from that who gave authority to any of us to even tentatively "negotiate" such issues?
Mostly,
you appear to be critical of me by claiming that I
have no sources or I am making up things. My sources
are listed in every article on my website, which has
changed to www.torah-voice.org
because the URL without the hyphen was somehow
pirated, but the best compilation is from these
writings:
1) The
petition for rights of inheritance for Joes
which I wrote to the Sanhedrin Court
dated 10 Tevet 5765, in which the concept
of Ephraim comprising a Global Rov (not
just a British-American identity) is explained
in all the detail and with all the sources you
could not handle, when I presented this to your
group in the meeting at the Jerusalem Hilton
(where you invited me to speak) the night before
I was arrested and imprisoned in 2001. This is
an effort to suggest a resolution to the
Israeli-Palestinian conflict using the
Halachah of the Global Rov. I think
you could learn a lot from it.
YD: (a) There is no real Sanhedrin and no Sanhedrin Court.
There is an organization (The Jewish Congress) that hopes to become a Sanhedrin but the likelihood of this occurring appears to be extremely doubtful.
Nevertheless "The Jewish Congress" does enjoy much prestige and may have some influence.
Brit-Am would not be adverse to a recommendation from them though we can live without it.
Dell sent them a petition. Dell knows some of the people in it. This is a strength of his approach.
He may not have much of substance to say but he makes a point of meeting people and making contact with all kinds of types
in the hope that it may benefit his cause.
Sometimes it pays off. We could learn from him.
To imitate him however in this matter might be counter-productive and
would take up too much of our time which is better spent on Brit-Am matters. People
come to us on their own initiative.
(b) DG mentioned "all the sources you could not handle".
It is not surprising that we could not handle them since they do not exist,
at least not in the form DG presents them.
DG does not know Hebrew and does not understand the sources he quotes from.
This would not be so bad if he would quote from them straight out of a translation or something.
He however does not leave the sources as they are but extrapolates (without mentioning it),
jumps from one conclusion to another, etc, and in general lets his imagination lead where he is determined to go anyway.
(c) Brit-Am does not say that the Lost Ten Tribes are ONLY to be found amongst people of British-American identity.
We rather identify the British-Americans as mainly Joseph finding a
predominance of the other tribes elsewhere amongst peoples in Western Europe or their descendants.
We also acknowledge that descendants of both the Lost Ten Tribes and of
Judah (Captive Jews") are to be found (as a MINORITY) amongst many other peoples.
Dell wants to say that MOST of the Gentiles are descended from Israel. He claims to have proof but he has not.
He has not even got a reference or vague indication of evidence to substantiate his claim.
(d) The only resolution of the "Israeli-Palestinian conflict" will come about when the "Palestinians" go elswhere.
See our article, Movement of Arab Populations (MAP)
See also the Brit-Am Commentary to Isaiah 11:14 where it shows that Ephraim and Judah together will cause the Palestinians to be flown to somewhere in the west.
See an outline of our work, "Role to Rule. The Task of Joseph" concerning the peculiar predicted role of joseph which was to lead, guide, and rule over other nations and becoming "a light to Gentiles".
The Israelites were destined to remain apart from the heathen, rule them, and uplift them.
2)
The summary of my 7-year study on the roots of
enmity and vexation between Joseph and Judah and
the Halachah that can resolve them came
from 156 90-minute audio cassettes I produced
on all of the Torahs and Haftorahs
(quoting Classical and more modern sources from
Jewish scholars) examining the theme of "the
roots of the enmity and vexation between Joseph
and Judah." This was a study advised by the
late Rabbi Terbe Gilner, z"l, when I
shared with him the bat kol about Hashem
turning the hearts of Joes to Joseph and Jews to
Judah each for their respective brothers, since
Joseph and Judah had reconciled in
Egypt. This depth study is summarized
(with sources galore) in the writing titled "Od
Yoseif Chai" (Joseph is still alive), one of
the online manuscripts on my website, www.torah-voice.org.
And of course, with everything else I write and
make available to the Joes, it is FREE.
3) The
third compilation of sources is another free
online manuscript titled: "The
Disputations: Removing the michshol (stumbling
block) between the sons of Joseph and the sons
of Judah," done in 2005. I would especially
urge you, Yair, to think about whether your
position maintaining British-and
British-colonized American exclusivity for the
House of Joseph is not such a stumbling block.
You should be further advised that Hashem
promises to remove these stumbling blocks.
YD: Same old Dell.
He describes our position as "maintaining British-and British-colonized American exclusivity for the House of Joseph".
Instead of arguing according to the Bible and the facts he attempts to circumscribe us,
present us as believing things we do not, and then
appeals to what may be of benefit to us or himself regardless of the truth.
Isaiah spoke of the Lost Tribes when in the End Times the peoples of India and Africa will make acknowledgment to descendants
of the Israelites,
THEY SHALL FALL DOWN UNTO THEE, THEY SHALL MAKE SUPPLICATION UNTO THEE, SAYING, SURELY GOD IS IN THEE; AND
THERE IS NONE ELSE, THERE IS NO GOD (Isaiah 45:14).
See the
Brit-Am Commentary to this section of Isaiah.
Also see the Brit-Am Summary to the chapters in question.
It was prophesied that Israel, SHALL NOT BE RECKONED AMONG THE NATIONS (Numbers 23:9).
YAIR DAVIDY
WROTE:
John Hulley
identified the Sambation with the Bosporus
Strait between the Asian and European parts of
present-day Turkey. We do not know what inspired
John and
Dell would be better off addressing the
question to him instead of making assumptions that
are not correct. Brit-Am identifies the
Sambatian with the
Don River in Southern Russia though
acknowledging that the term could also historically
have been applied to the Dneister River in Southern
Russia and to the Upper Zab River in the west of
present-day Iran.
MbY responds:
Re: your
comment regarding my attribution of the identity of
the Bosporus Strait as the Sanbatyon instead
of the
Don River you propose in Southern Russia, I
will soon post the article based on an interview I
did with John Hully (Yohanan Hevroni ben David)
in 1993 on my website. It was originally published
in the third edition of an underground newspaper I
started in
Jerusalem. The November 1993, "Jersualem
Torah Voice and Investigative Report," features
an article on the front page with ben-David's
picture, "Former
World Bank senior economist (ben David) IDs 'Sanbatyon,'
route of Lost Tribes in exile." This article
was written after spending about 30 hours with John
and he explained his research in detail including
the passage in the
New Testament identifying the san
(river) of Bitnyia or the region where
Sha'ul (the apostle Paul) was when he was told
to cross over into
Macedonia and help the people there (in
Europe).
So the Gospel
of renewal, restoration and repair of the covenant
of the House of
Israel followed the House of
Israel to the west. ben David also
prooved that the legend of the Sanbatyon
(Bosporus) also called Shabbatyon (in the
Talmud) standing still on
Shabbat may also be true, in that the
prevailing SW winds from the Dardanelles blew
against the Black Sea causing the Bosporus to stand
still and even back up on the average of 4.5 times a
month from April to late September. He also
described tumulary inscriptions in the region that
confirm his find. His research also was published in
B'or HaTorah (In the light of the
Torah) under the title, "Did any of the
Lost Tribes Go North?" after the Lubavitch
editors of this publication spent more than a year
double-checking ben-David before printing his
work virtually as he submitted it.
YD: Nuts!
This is another attempt of Dell Griffin to confuse the issue.
Concerning the Sambation, John Hulley says one thing. Brit-Am says another.
Concerning who the Lost Ten Tribes are today however John Hulley agrees with Brit-Am.
YD
wrote:
George Bush:
On the whole,
George Bush has been good for
Israel.
MbY responds:
George Bush is simply carrying out the design
of his father, George H.W. and James Baker and the
Saudi's who they befriended to dismantle and destroy
the modern Jewish state and claim the oil in the
territories of Joseph (at Rosh Ha-Ayin and in
the Givot Olam) for the Saudi's proxy, who
would be the Palestinians. By taking the
Birthright of Jacob (the territories of Joseph)
and giving them to the House of Esau (as
Obadiah describes the people living in this region
(Palestinians) when Jacob reclaimed his
possessions. Further, as reported on my
website, Bush has taken a vow to Satan and
proclaimed himself as Gog m'Gog (when he was
in the Skull and Bones society at
Yale University).
YD: DG is showing his true colors here! Nothing but a Conspiracy Monger making assumptions, false allusions, and going down to the depths of speculative falsehood that decent people keep away from.
This is really
alarming when the commander in chief of the Armed
Forces of the U.S. -- the chief prince of
Meschech and Tubal as the Sandhedrin
calls him -- controls the
Tigris River valley, since Gog
m'Gog launches his invasion for the oil of
Israel (in the territories of Joseph) from
Togormah (note same consonants as Tigris).
YD wrote: The
occupation of
Iraq was good for the USA and good for
Israel. The only really dark mark against
President Bush is his recent trip to
Israel and the pressure he appeared to put on
Israel to give up part of its land. We still
have to see what will become of this and chances are
that nothing will happen.
MbY responds:
The US is in Iraq today because the Bush-Baker
administration sold out
Israel for Arab oil and the promise of
non-alliances with Saddam. When
Israel should have been settling the
territories of Joseph and preparing for the Joes
return, the Bush-Baker ultimatum to former Prime
Minister Yitzhak Shamir halted those
settlements. Because these biblically ignorant or
otherwise sinister plans to circumvent the
territories of Joseph concerned the 1991
Persian Gulf War, the U.S. is now mired there
and will be until the foreign policy initiative
returns to helping
Israel prepare for the coming Joes.
The State
Department is complicit in this as I have told you
before. In my meeting with Steven Lynn Rothschild in
1994, I was told point blank by Rothschild (the heir
to the Rothschild family fortune) that he had been
approached by the State Department to fund a "West
Bank Infrastructure Development corporation."
I encouraged him not to be involved and for about
six years he was not. But eventually this scheme by
your good friend,
Shimon Peres, to use these funds to buy off
opposition to a Palestinian state in Judea-Samaria
was successful. The State Department, again to
appease the Arab lobby, also acted criminally to
extradite Robert Manning, (see the Manning File on
my website).
YD: Dell
himself
plays around
with the idea that
George Bush is Gog. This is an
attitude we consider potentially insulting.
MbY
responds: I don't play around with the idea. I
give the facts and let the reader decide.
Personally, I think G.W. fits every prerequisite
from the Hebrew gematria of his name (666) to
the vow he took as Gog m'Gog, to his design
on the oil in the territories of Joseph -- via the
Saudi plan, to the robbery by his grandfather of the
skull of Geronimo, resulting in the
m'dah of decapitation of the head of Joseph
in the outline of Judea-Samaria (the logo on my
website) and the graverobbing of the
Patriarchs and their sons (all buried in
Judea-Samaria).
<
YD: Dell refers to Shimon Peres as "your good friend, Shimon Peres". This could be taken as a slip of the tongue but it is symptomatic of his technique
of telling lies, besmirching others, attributing to them opinions and positions they do not hold and more such nefarious methods.
YD:
Hopi:
The story of the Hopi sounds more like wishful
thinking than anything else.
MbY: The story
of the Hopi is based on the work of the late
Dr. Frank Waters, "Book of the Hopi," 1976,
who was the first non-Native allowed to publish the
Hopi dances and traditions and prophecies.
Essentially, Waters learned that the Hopi
were told (like Abraham) to migrate in all four
directions but to return to their place of origin,
Aztlan. Thus the phenomenon today of the
descendants of Lehi ben M'nashe ben Yoseif
massing in the American Southwest and affecting the
demographics of the nation.
YD: The concept of Lehi is borrowed from Mormon writings. Dell has no trouble presenting himself as a Mormon sympathizer,
or as a believer in Judaism, or as a revised-type of Christian. It all depends on the audience, as he himself has admitted.
Behind this veneer of eclecticism however there lurks a betrayal of the American Nation and of the Lost Tribes.
Dell would like to hijack Mormon teachings in the service of Mexican anti-semitic, anti-Anglo Indian-Hispanic
revangistic nationalism.
Brit-Am also has followers who are Mormons, or Hispanics, or partly-Amerindians. These people were not born yesterday.
Also, after
hearing that the Hopi believed their origin was
Jerusalem, in two separate meetings with the
three daughters of the late chief, a medicine man on
a different mesa and other independent witnesses, I
was able to verify that the former chief, Chief
Mike, before his death called a meeting and
announced that he had kept a great secret told to
him by his grandfather before his grandfather died
and now was the time to reveal it. "Your
tuwanisavi (place of origin also called "The Center
of the Universe") is
Jerusalem," he said.
YD:
Dell said, "YOU HAVE THIS MASSIVE FOLLOWING
OF JOES AND COULD BE AN IMPORTANT VOICE IN CALLING
FOR THE RETURN OF THE HOUSE OF JOSEPH".
Brit-Am does have a hard core of followers. I am not
sure if it could be called "massive" but God willing
the day will come when such a description will be
apt enough.
We do what we feel we must and we work with the
long-range goal in our aim. Books are important.
Books enable the tranmission of information and
opinion and books last. If anything should happen to
us chances are the books will remain for others to
continue in our path.
Books also bring in some income which enables us to
function.
Something wrong with that?
As for smoking a pipe Yair Davidiy has not smoked
anything for the last 12 years or more.
Dell says that we have,
MbY
Responds: So while Joes are busy reading your
research, Judea-Samaria which includes their
inheritance is given away to the Palestinians. What
good are your books now, Yair? Will you continue to
fiddle while Rome burns? Sorry, I thought you
actually smoked that pipe instead of using it for
show.
YD: Ever since we can remember, people have been saying that the world is going to end any second now. It is a wonder we ever dared to do anything at all!
We never had a pipe. Dell evidently thinks he saw us with one. We could be lead to suspect that if any of us had been smoking it was not just tobacco, and not us.
YD: NO COMPASSION OR FEELING FOR THE JOES LIVING IN
POVERTY AND OPPRESSION
If there are such "Joes" we feel sorry for them and
have compassion for them and for all others in sorry
circumstance.
Is
Dell implying that he has more "compassion"
than we do?
What else do we lack?
As for "living in poverty", most "Joes" that we know
of get by reasonably well. There are exceptions.
MbY: The
descendants of Lehi ben M'nashe ben Yoseif
(Native Americans who assimilated with Hopi
and others with Israelite heritage -- Mulek
and Zarahemla) are impoverished,
oppressed and discriminated against. M'nashe
who went East along the ancient southern Chinese
trade routes (as identified by Rabbi Eliyahu
Avichayil) ditto. Ephraim who dwells in the
coastal regions of the world is about to be
displaced by the coming inundations. Look what
already has happened in
New Orleans and along the Mississippi coast.
According to Rashi's interpretation of
Halachah, when a nation exists in a settled
condition, then a random sample from that nation
represents the Rov or majority. So coastal
populations represent Ephraim if Ephraim
is a global Rov, as Jacob prophesied it would
become. By your own theory that the U.S. and
Britain are Ephraim and M'nashe,
you should be calling for the return of Ephraim
from
New Orleans and the Mississippi coast!!! to
settle the territories of Joseph. During my
"Message to the Coastlands," seminars, I found
many such hopeless Ephraimites along the Gulf Coast.
They are not getting the help then need from this
government. Isaiah said "Send me (Israel)
your tempest (storm) tossed."
YD: Dell is spouting rubbish.
The source he quotes from actually says the opposite of what he claims.
It says that because the Lost Ten Tribes are in the MINORITY all non-Jews must be assumed to be non-Israelite Gentiles
and not descendants of the Lost Ten Tribes.
Other reasons are also adduced for assuming all non-Jews to be Gentiles regardless of what their ancestry may have been.
This is Jewish Law.
If the majority of the Gentiles are now Israelites as Dell claims who are the nations of Gog and Magog who are destined to attack the Twelve Tribes of Israel (Ezekiel chs.38-39)?
Who are the Gentiles who will come up to worship the Almighty at the feast of Succoth (Zechariah ch.14) in the Messianic Era?
YD:
CHINESE:
The Lost Ten Tribes are those descended from the Ten
Tribes of Israel as proven by
Biblical Proofs
and affirmed by
Ephraimite Criteria.
Only certain nations meet the requirements. This is
the truth. It is reality and it cannot be changed by
wishful thinking or fancy stories.
MbY: Do your
biblical proofs include the fact that Jacob said
Ephraim would be a global Rov thereby
debunking your "Ephraimite criteria?" and making it
possible for a nation to be born in one day?
YD: DG is referring to the blessing of Jacob to Ephraim and Manasseh,
[Genesis 48:16] THE ANGEL WHICH REDEEMED ME FROM ALL EVIL, BLESS THE LADS;
AND LET MY NAME BE NAMED ON THEM, AND THE NAME OF MY FATHERS ABRAHAM AND ISAAC; AND
LET THEM GROW INTO A MULTITUDE IN THE MIDST OF THE EARTH.
The word tranmsalted as "A MULTITUDE" in Hebrew is "Le-Rov". In Hebrew "rov" can mean "majority" or "determing element".
It also connotes a great number or a ruling portion. This last connotation is the one understood by the Commentators.
No-one takes it to mean literally "a majority" of the peoples as Dell does.
So Dell has an interpretation of his own: All the Gentiles, he says, are going to be "born again" as Israelites?
Happy Days for happy people?
It could however happen that after the Wars of Gog and Magog etc that a majority of the inhabitants of this world will be of Israelite Descent.
This is not the situation at present.
YD:
Details:
Brit-Am has the truth and has a hard enough time as
it is putting that truth across. We do not need to
compromise nor to co-operate with they who have a
lesser truth than our own and only want to dilute
the truth we have.
MbY: I guess
this means you decline my suggestion to end the
enmity and vexation between us. So be it Yair. My
goal is the truth as well. I have congratulated you
repeatedly on your etymological trek of
Israel, except on this one point where you
fail to recognize the Rov identify of Ephraim
being a global rov. I had no desire to dilute
the truth, only to clarify it. Your defensiveness
about this without taking the time to examine this
position (at the meeting in the Hilton) told me a
lot about you and the facade of truth you portray.
I also have not forgotten that you "appropriated" my
entire mailing list of Joes when I accidentally CCed
it instead of BCCing it on one of my posts during
the time I was filing nightly reports on the
skirmishes between Beit Jala and Gilo. Legally, you
were within your rights, but ethically?
YD: In the past, Dell G. the only way we could spread our message was by sending e-mails to whatever addresses of potentially interested people we had.
Your list was no exception. Such internet behavior was more accepted at the time than it later became. We have since, for a good number of years, stopped this practice.
You imply you were battle-weary in the service of the cause and we took advantage of a mistake you made as a result.
If that was the least of our offenses we would be in good shape.
You yourself however, Dell G, had done much worse.
After you were arrested in Israel we referred to it in one of our own postings.
You had been suspected of supporting terrorists with whom, according to your own admittance, you had had some contact
and had gone to the jail to inquire after.
At that time it was 2001, just after the "Millenium" i.e. the year 2000 CE predicted to be a Year of Redemption?
There was a group of Christian Fanatics in the Jerusalem area who were planning to attack Jews.
The police suspected you were associated with them.
You have explained that police suspicions of you were mistaken and we accepted this.
We had however used an expression that you understood could be construed to imply that there was some doubt on the matter.
We had not understood or intended it that way but because you were evidently offended we were prepared to issue a clarification.
We sympathised with your plight and realized that an unintentional injustice may have been committed against you by the authorities.
Mistakes happen. Security personnel would rather be wrong than sorry but that does not help the offended party.
You demanded a public apology and we gave you one despite whatever embarrassment it might cost us.
You took this as a sign of weakness on our part, spoke to us as if we were under threat of being sued and presented a whole list of demands.
You demanded that Brit-Am change its List of Beliefs to be in accordance with your own.
Naturally we refused.
We suggested that you repent of your evil ways and wicked machinations!
For some reason you became quite upset at this suggestion and proceeded to bad-mouth us to your correspondents.
We still do not know what assumptions you were laboring under when you acted as you did and threatened us.
Apparently you had misunderstood our position and why we had apologized.
You are not in a position to lecture us on ethical matters.
YD: Brit-Am has
articles and notes
concerning the Japanese, Koreans, Chinese, etc and
whatever they are they are not Israelites!
MbY: If they
comprise a global Rov, then according to
Halachah, they are part of Ephraim.
YD: We think it somewhat impertinent for
Dell to make blanket assumptions and attempt
to railroad others into accepting them despite his
lack of Biblical or Secular evidence!
MbY: I make no
assumptions. It is all documented, sourced and out
there for everyone to see and evaluate. If you want
to discredit me, then focus on the Halachah
relating to the global Rov, the discussion of
Y'vamot 16b-17a and Jacob's identify of
Ephraim as a global Rov in his dying breath.
Until you can do this, I will continue to dispute
your claims everywhere I am given a chance to
speak. Again, the exclusive identity of
Britain and America as Ephraim is racist
and devisive.
YD:
LATE RABBI:
No such thing. The Yovel is the Jubilee Year. In the
Jubilee Year all parcels of lands were to be
restored to the private Tribal member whose
forefathers had originaly received them from Joshua
after he conquered and divided the Land of Israel.
The Jubille Year CANNOT be held untill ALL the
Twelve Tribes have returned and received their
Tribal Holdings. This can only happen after the
Messiah, or a Process associated with the Messiah,
has brought the Tribes back and each individual
Tribal Member has been informed what Tribe they
belong to. (This) has nothing to do with conversion.
MbY: It is not
necessary for the messiah to be present for the
return to begin. It has already begun with Judah's
return without the messiah here. Halachah
demands that Jews (and I would suppose the rest of
Israel) should not wait for the messiah to
fulfill the command to ascend to the land. This was
the argument advanced by the Hasidic movement before
the Jewish state was declared, but when the state
was declared, even though messiah had not arrived,
they started returning. The Yovel can be
declared according to Halachah without all 12
tribes present so long as a numerical majority (Rov)
is present. This is variously interpreted, "at
least seven of the 12 tribes," or "a Rov, or
majority of the population of all of the tribes."
Since, Jacob IDs Ephriam as this Rov, one
could propose that the Yovel could be
declared when Ephraim returns. The current
position of the Sanhedrin court is that Joes
may not exist as Joes. They must either become
Noahites or convert to Judaism. The former,
Noahites, as "guer toshavim" will be
allowed residency in
Israel WHEN the messiah comes. The latter, in
converting, lose their right of inheritance as Joes
to ancestral lands at the Yovel, but are
allowed to live in the land, own property, vote and
pay taxes like any other citizen. And my source on
conversion forcing the loss of tzahalat
(biblical inheritance at the Yovel) is
Mishnah Ma'aser Sheni, the Mishnah on the
"second tithe."
YD: Converting to Judaism has nothing to with Israelite Ancestry.
Whatever Tribe an Israelite belongs to will be made known to them in the Messianic Era as explained by Maimonides.
This is what Maimonides says and how we quote him in our work, "Biblical
Truth", p.195:
The Messiah Will Tell Us What Tribe We Belong To:
"NOR A LAWGIVER FROM BETWEEN HIS FEET, UNTIL SHILOH COME; AND UNTO HIM
SHALL THE GATHERING OF THE PEOPLE BE": The Messiah will enable individuals
from the Lost Ten Tribes to know what Tribe they belong to.
Maimonides: "In the time of the King Messiah, when his kingdom shall be
settled and all Israel gathered into him, he will establish the family
relationship of everyone according to the divine spirit of inspiration upon
him. As it says, AND HE SHALL SIT AS A REFINER AND PURIFIER OF SILVER: And
he begins with the Tribe of Levi, as it says AND HE SHALL PURIFY THE SONS
OF LEVI, AND PURGE THEM [Malachi 3:3] And he only establishes the family
relationship of Israel according to their tribes. He makes known who
belongs to this tribe and who belongs to that one":
Rambam: The Laws of
Kings and Their Wars, chapter twelve, item 6.
The above opinion could be contested as to what exactly it means or as to
how binding it really is but we accept it as it is.
In our days most of us cannot be sure what tribe we belong to.
We can only make educated guesses that in some cases may be accurate. The
Messiah or an agent of the Messianic process will confirm the tribal
identity of all Israelites.
Maimonides may be understood to say that absolute certainty regarding WHICH
TRIBE one belongs to can only be provided by the Messiah. Who is "Jewish" and who is not can be decided by legal
processes or hereditary in the light of legal definitions.
Who is of Israelite descent could also be decided by other processes as
long as no other ramifications were involved.
We are telling certain people that with a reasonable degree of certainty
they are probability of Israelite descent.
We also believe that through study, prayer, leading good lives, and the
results of further research the degree of intuitive certainty may be heightened.
If you are going to quote Jewish Sources, Dell -quote them. Do not give your own fanciful interpretations.
YD: The Law ("Halachah")
Dell refers to concerns someone in Biblical
Times who was of non-Israelite origin and converts.
Such a person in Biblical Times would not receive a
Tribal Portion at the time of the Jubilee. Even
though such laws were no longer applicable at the
time of the Mishna (ca. 200 CE) they were still
studied as if they were. In the End Times this
particular Law will not be applicable BUT the
non-Israelite "convert" will receive a portion
alongside those of his neighbours from the Tribe he
dwells amongst as explained by Ezekiel and repeated
frequently by us.
[Ezekiel 47:22] AND IT SHALL COME TO PASS, THAT YE
SHALL DIVIDE IT BY LOT FOR AN INHERITANCE UNTO YOU,
AND TO THE STRANGERS THAT SOJOURN AMONG YOU, WHICH
SHALL BEGET CHILDREN AMONG YOU: AND THEY SHALL BE
UNTO YOU AS BORN IN THE COUNTRY AMONG THE CHILDREN
OF ISRAEL; THEY SHALL HAVE INHERITANCE WITH YOU
AMONG THE TRIBES OF ISRAEL.
[Ezekiel 47:23] AND IT SHALL COME TO PASS, THAT IN
WHAT TRIBE THE STRANGER SOJOURNETH, THERE SHALL YE
GIVE HIM HIS INHERITANCE, SAITH THE LORD GOD.
MbY:
Halachah can only be changed by the Sanhedrin
court, which is why I sent the petition to them on
behalf of Joes.
YD: The so-called "Sanhedrin Court" cannot change any halachah. I doubt if they ever claimed to be able to do so.
They may have said that a real universally-accepted Sanhedrin would have such an ability but they are not at such a level and cannot claim to be.
Even a valid Sanhedrin is limited in what it can do.
In both the Tanach and the
New Testament, the only recognized
biblical authority is the Seat of Moses (the
Sanhedrin). The laws of the Mishna are
still relevant and binding on Orthodox Jews unless
and until they are clarified by the court. The
non-Israelite convert (guer toshav -- "stranger
who dwells among you") to which you refer is the
Halachic category, which the court has given
to the Noahites, due to the undue influence
of the Noahite agenda by several members of
the court.
YD:"Noahites" in Israel have no special status or advantage over other Gentiles apart from being able to
declare themselves as "Noahite" on offical forms.
What have you got against them anyway?
The Noahide Path may not be suitable for everyone but those who choose it are welcome to all the help they can get, as far as we are considered.
Through helping Noahides Rabbinical Authorities may psychologically become more disposed to consider Ephraimites.
Just for the record, Brit-Am never advocated a Noahide Path for Ephraimites but neither are we against it.
The court has
been aided and abbetted in this slight to their
brother, Joseph, -- by recognizing Noachite
strangers ahead of Joeish brothers -- through
long-standing relationships with [Christian-Messiah]-hating Noachite leaders. Compatriots
on the Sanhedrin who control the power there,
led by Rabbi Yoel Schwartz, have had a
Noachite agenda which has been promoted for the
past 20 years. There has been no effort to turn over
every leaf to seek the Truth in considering the Joes
right to exist as Joes.
YD: The only "Joes" in existence are those defined by the Bible. This is explained by Brit-Am teachings.
Rabbi Yoel Schwartz is familiar with Brit-Am.
The beliefs of Brit-Am are derived from the Bible and Biblically-derived Rabbinical Sources.
Quite a few rabbis and learned Jews are now familiar with Brit-Am beliefs. This does not mean that they are accepted but neither have they been refuted.
No answer has (so far) been made to them.
At this
point, Ephraim is not recognized by the Sanhedrin
court and Joes who desire to make their aliyah
to
Israel, must convert. (I have been told this
repeatedly by Orthodox Jews in both Israel and the
US). A condition of that conversion is to renounce
[Christian-Messiah], thereby unacceptable to Joes, whose renewal
of covenant via [Christian-Messiah], removes the three judgments
of Hosea 1 declared upon their ancestors but not
their Jewish brothers (see Hosea 1:7): Yizra'el
(the seed God will scatter), Lo-ruhumah
(without mercy) and Lo-ami (not My People).
As recorded in prophesies about him before his birth
and at his infancy, the rectificaiton of these Three
buzzwords is the witness of [Christian-Messiah]s mission
in Luke 1-2.
YD: According to DG most of the Gentile Peoples including all the Asians are EPHRAIM!
DG complains that the so-called "Sanhedrin" does not agree with him!
He considers this a sign of Anti-Christian religious discrimination.
He also accuses Brit-Am of being "racist" because we identify the Lost Ten Tribes historically and
Scripturally with specific peoples.
Being specific does not mean you are racist.
Brit-Am does identify "SPECIFIC" people as "Specifically" encompassing a predominant element of Israelite descent.
These descendants of Israelites in many cases derive from areas where there was a concentration from SPECIFIC Tribes so that to some degree
specific Tribal identifications may be tentatively made.
This is the beauty of Brit-Am.
This is what we are about.
It should be realized by all and sundry that Scripture is also quite SPECIFIC!
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Dell Griffin Refuted
