Brit-Am Now no. 1325
March 30 2009, 5 Nisan 5769
Contents:
1. Didrik: Benjamin in Troy?
2. Walt Baucum: Judah in Troy?
3. The Importance of Troy
(a) The Brit-Am Understanding
(b) Relevant Excerpts from the
Wikipedia article on Troy
4. Question on the importance of Jewish Sources and Jewish Belief in "Brit-Am" matters
5. Divine Providence Revealed in  "Brit-Am Now no. 1325"?


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1. Didrik: Benjamin in Troy?
Re: Brit-Am Now no. 1323
http://britam.org/now/1323Now.html#Did
#1. Did the Tribe of Benjamin found Rome?

About if Benjamin found Rome?
If my thesis is right then the people that came out from the city Dor in Kaanan, escaping from the battle against Benjamin in 1185-1183 BC. Did not want to flag with their origin.
They called themselves Dorians and got strongholds for example in Sparta (see the first book of Maccabes).  Some of them went to the Rodophi Mountains in Bulgaria (with few of the Bessi (Bessi means wolf) monks always on Siani??). The Ladiokeans had together with the Korinthans lot of influences west of. But often it seems to me that the wolfs (or the delfins )are the sign to look after.
If the legend is true that it was a princess in Latium that got twins without marriage then in could have been bastards, not really accepted by the full blood. Rome wanted later to be the biggest city on earth and the mother city. That is the only explanation I have on why they had to wipe out Troy so completely and even change name on the land to Illium. Because we know that in Troy there was all the rest of the ideology of a ancient world accumulated there and it seems as many of the princes of the river roads got their education there. It seems also as Byzans (Mikligardur) was founded by Wolfs (Dorians from Miletus) and the Heruls (Warwolfs) were for long times in service there, and after them (515) the Berserkir (Bear-hide-dressed) from north. Even until 900 when Grettir Asmundarson comes from Iceland to be a Berserkur in Mikligardur. Mikligardur is very Gotic name. So it seems as the Scytian area was strongly related to the Byzans too.

Ingileif
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Brit-Am Reply:

There are traditions that some of the Tribes and some of the Benjaminites left the Land of Israel before the
Assyrian Exile.  I personally doubt it and want strong evidence to support it.
The Romans are romantic.
The Romans were brave soldiers.
They established an impressive civilization and left their mark in the world.
This fits the prophecies concerning Edom as much as Israel.
More than what Rome achieved is expected from Israelites.
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2. Walt Baucum: Judah in Troy?
Subject: Founders of Rome
Re: Brit-Am Now no. 1323
http://britam.org/now/1323Now.html#Did
#1. Did the Tribe of Benjamin found Rome?

Hi Yair.  Today's Brit-Am was interesting re. founders of Rome believed by a writer to have been  Benjamin.  Your answer, that you believed the founders to have been from Japheth, with leadership by Esau-Edom was also interesting.  E. Raymond Capt says that Darda (Dardanus), the brother of Calcol (1 Chron. 2:6; Chalcol of 1 Kings 4:31, i.e. Jews) founded Troy.  His descendants ruled Troy for several hundred years until it was destroyed by the Greeks.  Aeneas, the last of the royal blood of Zarah-Judah collected the remnants of his nation and traveled with them to Italy.  There he married the daughter of Latinus, king of the Latins, and subsequently founded the great Roman Empire.
 
Aeneas' grandson, Brutus, migrated with a large party of Trojans to the Great White Island of Britain.  On the way to the White Island, Brutus came across four other Trojan colonies in Spain and persuaded them to join him.
 
Capt's explanation seems to be the correct one (in my opinion only).  I believe that many Esau-ites migrated eastward into Asia (Ghengis Khan himself was probably an Esau-ite).  Almost as many reversed direction and migrated back westward, many settling in today's Turkey.  I was in Izmir, Turkey, for a year and found that the Turks are not the brown color of American Indians, but are a reddish brown, which would conform to Esau's being a "red" man. 

This is from memory and I have not yet researched it----but I read somewhere that the Mongols of Genghis Khan were two different peoples united, and if so, it could be that the dominant class among them was Esau-ites.  You might know more about this from your vast readings.  I had an instructor in graduate school, Dr. Ozerden, a Turk, who also believed that the Mongols were a Turkish tribe and Esau-ites.  There were either 12 or 13 "Dukes" of Esau.  Because of the blessing of Isaac on Esau, his people were destined to be great.
 
Any thoughts on this????
 
Walt Baucum
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Brit-Am Reply:

Capt in this case and it seems in most others took what he wrote straight out of British Israel writings that said the same thing.
I once spoke on the phone with Capt.
As an individual he seemed civil enough but in his public live he associated his studies to groups of  Jew-hating "Identity" hate-mongers.
His books as far as I know are not anti-Semitic apart from one in which he inserts an anti-Jewish paragraph that does not need to be there, i.e. has little to do with the subject at hand.
[This is the same book his company tries to sell to the Jewish public!]
His books contain a good deal of information but it all seems to be taken from elsewhere.
This is fair enough but as far as I remember he does not acknowledge it.
[You for instance have written a very valuable work (Bronze Age Atlantis) relying heavily on the researches of others
http://www.britam.org/baucumcover.html
but you are always careful to note where you got the information from.]
Capt is apparently quite successful.
Not so long ago the promoters of his works were advertising heavily on prominent Jewish web sites (Jerusalem Post, Haaretz, etc) which we found somewhat strange due to the anti-Semitic tinge his reputation has acquired.

The question of Troy is difficult. I have not yet studied the matter enough to have a firm opinion but at present doubt that they were Israelites.
Rome was not an Israelite Kingdom according to the Ephraimite Criteria we employ:
http://www.britam.org/criteria.html
Rome had the characteristics of Esau, e.g. a rich fertile land (Italy at that time)
and a culture of living by the sword.
[Genesis 27:39] AND ISAAC HIS FATHER ANSWERED AND SAID UNTO HIM, BEHOLD, THY DWELLING SHALL BE THE FATNESS OF THE EARTH, AND OF THE DEW OF HEAVEN FROM ABOVE;
[Genesis 27:40] AND BY THY SWORD SHALT THOU LIVE, AND SHALT SERVE THY BROTHER; AND IT SHALL COME TO PASS WHEN THOU SHALT HAVE THE DOMINION, THAT THOU SHALT BREAK HIS YOKE FROM OFF THY NECK.
Rome was also the enemy of Israelite nations, destroyed the Temple in Jerusalem, persecuted Judah and was pagan by preference and not Hebraic.
Rabbinical Tradition identified Rome with Edom.
Esau is definitely to be found amongst European nations.
Esau may also be present in Asia.
We have dealt with these questions elsewhere.
http://www.britam.org/criteria.html

In the Bible it is prophesied that Edom will be an arch-enemy of Israel.
Edom will be despised and destroyed.
This may have lead some readers of the Bible to downplay the importance of Edom.
Edom was destined to be a great nation.
It may that ESAU (Edom) and Israel were destined to divide the world between them.
Perhaps every important nation in the world not ruled by an elite from Israel is ruled by descendants of Edom?

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3. The Importance of  Troy
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(a) The Brit-Am Understanding
We trace the Lost Tribes to Western Nations.
This is justified by Biblical Passages and some aspects of secular researches.
Other explanations for the origins of the peoples in question exist.
We need to account for them either by showing that they may fit into our own conceptions, or they are mistaken, or they refer to a different non-Israelite segment of the peoples in question.

Troy in ancient times was a city-state in what is now southwest Turkey.
Troy was besieged and destroyed by a confederation of Greek States. The events leading up to the war, the nature of the conflict and what happened as a result of it became a major theme in Greek and Latin Literature.
One of the epics of Homer (the "Iliad") was built around it. This work was attributed almost sacred significance in the Classical World.
It was often learnt by heart and recited publicly, commentaries were written on it, and mystical meaning read in to it.
The Romans claimed to descended by refugees from Troy.
London in Roman Times may have been named "New Troy" [source needed].
Possibly out of a desire to emulate the Romans the Early medieval Britons, the Franks, and Scandinavians all produced works tracing their ancestors to Troy.

Some early British Israel writers tried to combine the Trojan ancestries with Israelite ones and claim an Hebraic or Israelite origin for the Trojans.

Archaeology has revealed the presence of artifacts in the west similar to those found in Troy and elsewhere. These finds may not be that numerous but they do exist and indicate a common cultural or ethnic element linking Troy to places in Europe.

The site identified with Troy consists of several stratum indicating that different peoples and civilizations at various times had occupied the site.

Conventional dating linking the accounts in Classical Literature with archaeological findings gives dates from ca. 1230 to 1120 BCE.
Velikovsky placed it much later and in this case we tend to agree with him.

In our work "Lost Israelite Identity" we indicate that Israelites with the Tribe of Dan playing a prominent role at some stage did conquer all of Asia Minor (present day Turkey) and Greece.
They were not necessarily there for very long and did not contribute significantly to the native stock.

Whether or not these events involved Troy is a subject requiring further study.
At the moment we remain skeptical.
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(b) Relevant extracts from the Wikipedia Artilce on Troy.
Troy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy

Troy (Greek: , Troia, also , Ilion; Latin: Tr ia, lium;[1] Hittite: Wilusa or Truwisa) is a legendary city and center of the Trojan War, as described in the Epic Cycle, and especially in the Iliad, one of the two epic poems attributed to Homer. Trojan refers to the inhabitants and culture of Troy.

Today it is the name of an archaeological site, the traditional location of Homeric Troy, Turkish Truva, in Hisarl k in Anatolia, close to the seacoast in what is now ?nakkale province in northwest Turkey, southwest of the Dardanelles under Mount Ida.

A new city of Ilium was founded on the site in the reign of the Roman Emperor Augustus. It flourished until the establishment of Constantinople and declined gradually during the Byzantine era.

In the 1870s a wealthy German businessman, Heinrich Schliemann, excavated the area. Later excavations revealed several cities built in succession to each other. One of the earlier cities (Troy VII) is often identified with Homeric Troy. While such an identity is disputed, the site has been successfully identified with the city called Wilusa in Hittite texts; Ilion (which goes back to earlier Wilion with a digamma) is thought to be the Greek rendition of that name.

According to Greek mythology Troy was an ancient city in the Troad region of Anatolia. It is presented anachronistically in legend as if it were part of the Greek culture of city-states. Since the entire state comprised more than the city of Troy itself, anyone from its jurisdiction, which was mainly the Troad, might be termed "Trojan" in ancient literature.[2] An alternative classical Greek and Latin term was "Teucrians", a name taken from an ethnicity of the south Troad. Troy was known for its riches gained from port trade with east and west, fancy clothes, iron production, and massive defensive walls. The major language spoken there and the derivative cultures remain uncertain. Legend for the most part ignores language and makes the presumption that Trojans were fluent in Greek.

The Trojan royal kinship, in Greek eyes, traced its descent from the Pleiad Electra and Zeus, the parents of Dardanus. According to Greek myths, Dardanus was originally from Arcadia but according to Roman myths, he was originally from Italy, having crossed over to Asia Minor from the island of Samothrace, where he met King Teucer. Teucer was himself also a coloniser from Attica, and treated Dardanus with respect. Eventually Dardanus married Teucer's daughters, and founded Dardania (later ruled by Aeneas). Upon Dardanus' death, the Kingdom was passed to his grandson Tros, who called the people Trojans and the land Troad, after himself. Ilus, son of Tros, founded the city of Ilium (Troy) that he called after himself. Zeus gave Ilus the Palladium. Poseidon and Apollo built the walls and fortifications around Troy for Laomedon, son of Ilus the younger. When Laomedon refused to pay, Poseidon flooded the land and demanded the sacrifice of Hesione to a sea monster. Pestilence came and the sea monster snatched away the people of the plain.
 
In Sardis [Lydia] a self-identified Heracleid dynasty ruled for 505 years until the time of Candaules. The dynasty's founding myth legitimizes their rule by asserting that one generation before the Trojan War, Heracles captured Troy and killed Laomedon and his sons, except for young Priam. Priam later became king. During his reign, the Mycenaean Greeks invaded and captured Troy in the Trojan War (traditionally dated to 1193?1183 BCE, most recently dated to 1188 BCE).[3] The Ionians, Cimmerians, Phrygians, Milesians of Sinope, and Lydians moved into Asia Minor. The Persians invaded in 546 BCE.

Several far-flung tribes claimed descent from the Trojans: the Paeonians,[4] the Elymi of Egesta,[5] and the west Libyan Maxyes.[6] The Trojan ships transformed into naiads, who rejoiced to see the wreckage of Odysseus' ship.

Some famous Trojans are Dardanus (founder of Troy), Laomedon, Ganymede, Priam and his children (including Paris, Cassandra, and Troilus), Tithonus, Corythus, Aeneas, and Brutus. Kapys, Boukolion, and Aisakos were Trojan princes who had naiad wives. Some of the Trojan allies were the Lycians, the Ethiopians led by Memnon, and the Amazons, led by their Queen Hippolyta. The Aisepid nymphs were the naiads of the Trojan River Aisepos. Pegsis was the naiad of the River Granicus near Troy. "Helen of Troy" was born not in Troy, but in Sparta, of which she was queen until she eloped with Paris to Troy.

Mount Ida in Asia Minor is where Ganymede was abducted by Zeus, where Anchises was seduced by Aphrodite, where Aphrodite gave birth to Aeneas, where Paris lived as a shepherd, where the nymphs lived, where the "Judgement of Paris" took place, where the Greek gods watched the Trojan War, where Hera distracted Zeus with her seductions long enough to permit the Achaeans, aided by Poseidon, to hold the Trojans off their ships, and where Aeneas and his followers rested and waited until the Greeks set out for Greece. Buthrotos (or Buthrotum) was a city in Epirus where Helenus, the Trojan seer, built a replica of Troy. Aeneas landed there and Helenus foretold his future.

Ancient Greek historians placed the Trojan War variously in the 12th, 13th or 14th century BCE: Eratosthenes to 1184 BCE, Herodotus to 1250 BCE, Duris of Samos to 1334 BCE. Modern archaeologists associate Homeric Troy with archaeological Troy VII.

Recent geological findings have permitted the reconstruction of how the original Trojan coastline would have looked, and the results largely confirm the accuracy of the Homeric geography of Troy.[9]

Besides the Iliad, there are references to Troy in the other major work attributed to Homer, the Odyssey, as well as in other ancient Greek literature. The Homeric legend of Troy was elaborated by the Roman poet Virgil in his work the Aeneid. The Greeks and Romans took for a fact the historicity of the Trojan War, and in the identity of Homeric Troy with the site in Anatolia. Alexander the Great, for example, visited the site in 334 BCE and made sacrifices at the alleged tombs of the Homeric heroes Achilles and Patroclus.

A small minority of contemporary writers argue that Homeric Troy was not in Anatolia, but located elsewhere: England,[17] Croatia, and Scandinavia have been proposed. These theories have not been accepted by mainstream scholars.

Troy VIIa, which has been dated to the mid- to late-13th century BCE, is the most often-cited candidate for the Troy of Homer. It appears to have been destroyed by war.[19]

The last city on this site, Hellenistic Ilium, was founded by Romans during the reign of the emperor Augustus and was an important trading city until the establishment of Constantinople in the fourth century as the eastern capital of the Roman Empire. In Byzantine times the city declined gradually, and eventually disappeared.

Such was the fame of the Epic Cycle in Roman and medieval times that it was built upon to provide a starting point for various founding myths of national origins. The progenitor of all of them is undoubtedly that promulgated by Virgil in the Aeneid, tracing the ancestry of the founders of Rome, more specifically the Julio-Claudian dynasty, to the Trojan prince Aeneas. The heroes of Troy, both those noted in the epic texts or those purpose-invented, continued to perform the role of founder for the nations of Early Medieval Europe.[23] Denys Hay noted the widespread adoption of Trojan forebears as an authentication of national status, in Europe: the Emergence of an Idea (Edinburgh 1957). The Roman de Troie was common cultural ground for European governing classes,[24] for whom a Trojan pedigree was gloriously ancient, and it established the successor-kingdoms of which they were direct heirs as equals of the Romans. A Trojan pedigree justified the occupation of parts of Rome's erstwhile territories (Huppert 1965).

The Franks filled the lacunae of their legendary origins with Trojan and pseudo-Trojan names; in Fredegar's seventh-century chronicle of Frankish history, Priam appears as the first king of the Franks.[25] The Trojan origin of Franks and France was such an established article of faith that in 1714 the learned Nicolas Fr?et was Bastilled for showing through historical criticism that the Franks had been Germanic, a sore point counter to Valois and Bourbon propaganda.[26]

Similarly Geoffrey of Monmouth traces the legendary Kings of the Britons to a supposed descendant of Aeneas called Brutus. Snorri Sturluson, in the Prologue to his Prose Edda, converts several half-remembered characters from Troy into characters from Norse mythology, and refers to them having made a journey across Europe towards Scandinavia, setting up kingdoms as they went.
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4. Question on the importance of Jewish Sources and Jewish Belief in "Brit-Am" matters
Ine og Eirik Stokke  wrote:
 
 

Hello Yair!
 
In the article "History of Brit-Am"

http://www.britam.org/BAhistory.html
 

we learn that you received much of your inspiration concerning the lost tribes from your christian grandmother. I would like though to know more about the jewish traditions concerning the lost tribes that has inspired Brit-Am's work. My best friend, who is jewish, tells me that it is not unusual among learned jews in Israel to believe that the lost tribes are placed in the northern parts of Europe. Does this belief/tradition stem for the most part from christian British-Israelism brought into Israel from Europe?
 
Best regards, Eirik Stokke, Norway.

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Brit-Am Reply:
I do not know how much was due to my grandmother since I hardly knew her.
I remember meeting her when I was about five years old and that is all.
 I mentioned her involvement since it indicates something. Certain things sometimes seem to run in the family.
For instance my brother Oren Davis just published a book about the importance of names. Names, their meanings, and associations play an important role in our own book "The Tribes".  In other words the meaning of names has come to be important to both of us yet when we were growing up I do not remember anybody ever mentioning it.

Even some of the early British Israel writers may have been influenced by Jewish sources.

Personally,
The factors that MOST contributed to the compulsion I had and still have on this matter derive from the Hebrew Bible as I was taught to understand it from a Jewish perspective.
Many Jews  do have an idea that the Lost Tribes are in the west. Or at the least they are open to the possibility.
Where these ideas come from it is hard to say.
In some cases they heard about it or saw a non-Jewish article dealing with it and the notion appealed to them.
One old Rabbi I met seemed to have received a notion in that direction from the motto "In God we Trust"
on the dollar bill. Another elderly Orthodox Jew told me he had thought of it himself.
I once asked a noted Kabbalist who are the "Anglo-Saxons"?
He replied:
"Some say they are Israelites and some say Edom".
What or who he meant by "some" I have no idea.
Rabbis might be learned but like everybody else they are human and influenced by what they hear, who they are speaking to, what kind of day they have had, etc.
Without sources that can be referred to one cannot go very far.

There are Jewish sources that taken to their logical conclusion lean strongly (in our opinion) in the Brit-Am direction.
In our books we quote from several of them (e.g. "Role to Rule and the Maharal of Prague speaking of the 'New World").  See also articles on our site.
e.g. Manasseh in Rabbinical Sources
http://britam.org/menasseh.html
This is just what we ourselves have come across in our learning which comprises not even a tiny speck of the vast amount of material that is available.
Nevertheless Divine Providence for some reason seems to have chosen us to lead the way in this matter.
We hope that others will come after us.
If we can do it so can others.

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5. Divine Providence Revealed in  "Brit-Am Now no. 1325"?
In the above items we spoke of  things running in the family and Divine Providence.
There may be evidence of this in this very posting.
 The first posting is from Didrik Ingileif from Iceland. Iceland is linked to Norway.
The third posting is from Eirik Stokke from Norway.
Norway and Iceland are part of Scandinavia.
The second posting is from Walt Baucum who is from  Idaho, USA, and not from Scandinavia.
Walt however has just had published an important work,
"Bronze Age Atlantis.
The International Nautical Empire of the Sea Peoples"
http://www.britam.org/baucumcover.html
This book traces Atlantis to the coasts of Scandinavia, deals with Scandinavia during the Bronze Age,
and speaks of the Scandinavian origins from Israel.
It follows that three out of the four above items closely concern Scandinavia and they all arrived in one day!
At other times weeks, even months, can go by and Scandinavia hardly receives a mention and nobody sends anything in connected with it!

Such apparent "coincidences" happen all the time to all of us.
We just have to open our eyes.


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