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Israelite Tribes in Exile
Dear Mr. Davidiy,
I live in the United States and have read your materials for years. I have thoroughly enjoyed your research.
However, I'm interested in whether or not you have incorporated any of the recent DNA data/research into your findings. A few years ago, I ran across an article that discussed a then recent DNA study conducted on various Europeans and Jews living in Israel. The conclusion of the scientific study was that Jews and Europeans did not share a common lineage according to the Y chromosomes. I found this quite disturbing since I feel that the *biblical* and *historical* proofs for European-Israelite identity are quite strong. I can't locate the article presently, but what is your input on this? Wouldn't a solid scientific study of this kind settle the issue once and for all?
Thanks for your attention.
Normally we would have posted your letter and our reply on the
BAMAD (Brit-Am Anthropology and DNA Update) Forum but since you have touched on matter that should
concern all those who believe along Brit-Am lines in general we will deal with it here.
You are right.
After years of effort we have proof or near proof in every field EXCEPT DNA!
Biblical Evidence is strong.
Rabbinical Evidence exists and together with Biblical Evidence at the least makes the Brit-Am case able to command serious consideration.
Archaeological Evidence both over land and by Sea is reasonable and consistent with known facts some of which have just recently
come to light.
The Evidence for migration by Sea via Spain was a Brit-Am contribution that accords well with recent archaeological findings
along with mythology and other evidence. This is quite strong.
Migration by land relies largely on an identification with the Cimmerians and Scythians.
This is not accepted by most authorities but evidence exists making it a feasible proposition
and we have more that is much stronger though relying on a moderate revision of conventional dating.
Linguistically the possibility of an incursion of speakers of a Semitic Tongue into the west can be well-argued
and accords with the evidence as academically admitted more and more at present.
And there is more.
Brit-Am in its publications has already discussed nearly all of the above and there is more to discuss.
When all the evidence is considered as one comprehensive whole then all conclusions agree with
those of Brit-Am.
The DNA evidence as conventionally presented does not tie in.
If what we say is true and if DNA was reliable then DNA should support what we say.
DNA however in general does not entirely support it at least not concerning the males.
From the Jewish Point of View:
DNA on the Y (Male) chromosome puts Jews roughly speaking as having a similar origin to non-Arab peoples
of northern Syria (e.g. natives of Turkey, Kurds, Armenians) along with some Mediterranean and North
On the mtDNA (Female) front Jews on the whole have unique sub-types that are considered
derivatives of the European and other peoples they dwell amongst. In other words they are considered
as both different from the peoples around them but derived from them. We disagree with all this but that
is how the data is presented at present.
From the Non-Jewish Brit-Am "Ephraimite" Poiint of View:
DNA on the Y (Male) chromosome (if we disregard the chronology and shorten the time span)
a small percentage (of "Ephraimite" peoples) have J or J2 which is considered typically Jewish though other peoples also
have it. Many (ca.30% in Scandinavia and parts of Britain) however do have I which may be considered
a variation of J and therefore related to the Jews where about 40% have J2.
Some Brit-Am "Ephraimite" males have R1a1 (Vikings, 30% of Norwegian, most East Europeans also found
in ca. 15% of Ashkenazi Jews) while the majority seem to have R1b1 (Western Celts, Basques, Anglo-Saxons, Frisians,
some West Germans, ca. 15% of Sephardic Jews).
On the "Ephraimite" mtDNA (Female) front the most common haplogroup is H which may be considered
as derived from pre-HV that is Middle Eastern. Many of the other mtDNA haplogroups
also could also be interpreted as consistent with a Middle Eastern origin.
Conventionally we could say that DNA as conventionally understood does not contradict Brit-Am
but it creates a difficulty in making it all fit together. We however disagree with DNA as it it conventionally
DNA is determined by environment even though after being "received" it is passed on by heredity.
DNA may therefore be useful to trace migratory paths.
DNA changes by becoming more "simple" not more complicated as is claimed at present.
Present depictions of DNA "evolution" describe it as coming out of Africa and going Northward
and becoming more complicated with each stage of its progressions.
Brit-Am says that if anything it did not come out of Africa but went into Africa become more simple
as it progressed.
Were R1 and N The Forefathers?
This in our view fits the scientific evidence. The "experts" however do not want to hear about
it and on the "GENEALOGY-DNA@rootsweb.com" discussion group which is the major forum
today for DNA considerations our posts are not permitted to be posted.
We have been BANNED!
[This is not the only forum that is ostracizing us!]
The Brit-Am DNA explanation if accepted on the big picture would not prove anything in favor of Brit-Am beliefs but it
would make it all feasible and there are points that if more research were done might change the picture altogether.
there do exist additional points indicated by DNA research that indicate that Brit-Am is on the right track,
these are discussed or indicated in our DNA articles and BAMAD postings.
For Brit-Am Sources on DNA see:
3. Interview Questions: What is the Goal of Brit-Am Teachings?
What are they Expected to Lead to?
Background to the Interviews:
Every Monday and Wednesday at 1130 New Mexico (USA) Time (ca. 2030 in Israel)
Kosher 101.9 Radio Around the World Interviews Brit-Am.
This is in addition to the numerous New BAMBI Recordings that Kosher 101.9 broadcasts
throughout the day, every day.
The interviews are sometimes on a topic prepared in advance but more often they unprepared.
Even when we do know in advance what the interview will focus on questions spring up that we are not
prepared for. This actually has advantages since by being "put on the spot" and forced to come up with a
spontaneous answer we sometimes receive important insights that surprise ourselves as much as
During the last interview the following points surfaced:
Brit-Am concentrates on putting out the message concerning the present-day identity of the Lost Ten Tribes
The message goes out to both Judah and "Joseph".
At present the emphasis is on "Joseph" and that is what is needed most.
It is not enough to simply believe and expect others to appreciate this belief.
Proof is also needed. The evidence must be available, easy to access, not difficult to comprehend
and attractively presented. The evidence must be at a level that the NAYSAYERS (who will always
be so) will not find easy to refute or contradict. Even if not everyone can appreciate or keep up-to-date
with all the evidence it must exist and remain up-to-date.
Brit-Am has a Mandate and obligation to uncover the evidence (i.e. research) and spread knowledge of the evidence.
Brit-Am restricts itself to the Three Rs of Brit-Am:
Research, Recognition of the Evidence, Reconciliation between Judah and Joseph.
Eventually Judah and Joseph will be reconciliated and join together.
Before that the knowledge of Brit-Am Ancestry must be made known and be widely known.
It is an obligation to spread this knowledge.
Where is it Leading? How Can it Come About?
Answer: We do not know and do not have to know.
Historical Parallels Exist.
Zionism may be described as two parallel movements one in Judah, the other in Joseph.
Jews throughout the centuries always tried to settle in the Land of Israel.
In the late 1700s, 1800s, this required an impetus. More and more Jews tried to come to
"Palestine" and there was more and more agitation and "propaganda" amongst the Jews
concerning the need to return to the Land.
Then came the modern Zionist movement that intensified this tendency and also tried to canvass support for it amongst the Gentiles.
This was the activity of Judah.
The Land was then ruled by the Turks who were antagonistic to the idea.
Parallel to the Zionist Movement in Judah there was the Restoration Movement in "Joseph".
"Gentiles" (mainly descendants of Lost Israelites and mainly believers in the Bible) in
Europe (France to some degree but also elsewhere) and also North America
(including an ancestor of President George Bush) but especially in Britain began pushing
to allow the Jews to return to the Land and set up their own State.
These people were not numerous but they were qualitatively important.
They included writers, artists, philosophers, poets, soldiers, and statesmen.
Eventually Britain found itself in control of the Land.
The Zionist and Restoration Movements came together.
The result was the Balfour declaration of 1917 followed by British assistance
in laying the foundations for the future State of Israel whose independence was announced in
People had believed in something and spread the message about it even though at the time
it seemed impractical and unlikely.
The Brit-Am Message is very important and should be spread.
We do not need concrete proposals at present.
We do need that the truth of Brit-Am Israelite Ancestry be made known and recognized by as many as possible.
Brit-Am needs your help to function and do what is needed.
1. Unconvinced and Unsatisfied with Brit-Am
From: Sinead Lunney <firstname.lastname@example.org>
RE: Why WE Should Support the State of Israel!
I have never read such inaccurate interpretations in my life, I thought the catholics were bad for cheap self serving interpretation but this gives the game a whole new meaning. In typical Zionist fashion you attempt to justify the displacement and disenfranchisement of millions of Palestinians with the bible. The bible is as much a myth as the stories of Germans, Russians and other lies you have written here.
Hundreds of years ago, Ossetians roamed all over Western Europe, from the Caucasus to Scotland. As Tim Whewell reveals, the folk memories of these wanderings have lingered down the centuries, so that it can be hard to tell where myth ends and history begins.
But the Ossetians are not just like the medieval Scots. As far as they are concerned, they are the Scots. And the Scots are them.
Centuries ago, possibly during the great migrations of the Dark Ages, some of their ancestors went down from the Caucasus and set sail through the Black Sea, the Mediterranean, the Atlantic, and arrived eventually in a landscape they recognised: Caledonia.
In fact, though, they did not just occupy Scotland. They occupied the whole of Western Europe on their fast horses, spreading the chivalrous respect for women that is originally an Ossetian concept.
Some children are taught about the arrival of the first Saxons, or Frisians, Hengist and Horsa. Very few know the story of our legendary Trojan ancestor Corinius and his battle on the cliffs of Cornwall with the giant Gogmagog.
Ossetian children know all about their forefathers' wanderings around Europe and how eventually their territory diminished again to those two little pockets on either side of the great Caucasian watershed, the southern one of which we heard so much about, so briefly, in August.
But the Ossetians, in their glory days of continental mastery, were not known by that name. They were sometimes Sarmatians, and sometimes Alans.
Every third Ossetian you meet now seems to be called Alan, and the north Ossetian republic, within Russia, is officially "Alania", as satisfying, I suppose, for Alans as it would be for me to live in Timia.
Meanwhile, the Alans in the south now live, supposedly, in an independent state, a miniscule country of 50,000 people, recognised only by Russia, Nicaragua and Somalia.
The rest of the world insists it is still part of Georgia, though the people I met there said that since the war they could never again live in one country with Georgians.
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[1-Kings 19:12] AND AFTER THE EARTHQUAKE A FIRE; BUT THE LORD WAS NOT IN THE FIRE: AND AFTER THE FIRE A STILL SMALL VOICE.
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