"Brit-Am Now"-560

1. Magen David in House of Parliament?
2. Is George Bush Gog? Reply, NO!
3. Is George Bush Gog? Background
4. Steve Coneglan: Korea and Gog
5. Steve Coneglan: Korea etc.

1. Magen David in House of Parliament?
From: "Roger G. Davis"
Subject: Magen David in the House of Commons

Shalom Mr. Davidy, I have been told that at the entrance to the House of Commons the is a large Magen David on the floor. Firstly is this true? and if it is what is the signicance of it being there/ I would so much appreciate your expertise in this matter. Todah Rabbah Roger Davis

Roger Shalom,
The British Parliament has an Upper House (House of Lords) and a lower one (House of Commons).
I do not know about the House of Commons but if I remember correctly there is such a thing in the House of Lords that also contains numerous other symbols of Hebraic significance.
Stephen Spykerman is an expert on this matter and has prepared a well-illustrated book on the subject.

2. Is George Bush Gog? Reply, NO!
Recently the idea that George Bush is "Gog" has been attracting popular interest.
Google Gog and you will get a giddy gaggle of new URLs on the subject authored by an assortment of Jewish and Christian writers.
Some of these articles are of a low level but others are not. Before we go into details first the question:
Could George Bush be Gog?
Brit-Am Answer: According to the simple meaning of the Bible and all the Commentators most definitely NOT!
If I were not such a modest self-effacing soft-spoken paragon of virtue I might be tempted to add more colorful descriptions to those who even raise the idea.
Fortunately my innate nobility of character suggests that I refrain from such expressions for the moment. The USA is Manasseh. A former nickname for the USA was "Brother Jonathan".
Jonathan in Jewish tradition (see 'Bnei Yissachar" on Sivan) had the soul of the Messiah Son of Joseph and the USA fulfills the role of Joseph.
The very name "America" derives from the Hebrew "Ha-Machiri" and Machir was the first born son of Manasseh.
"Ha-Machiri" (America) means literally "The descendants of Machir" though in Medieval Hebrew it could be used as a nickname for an individual named "Machir". see our book "Joseph".
Gog is mentioned in Ezekiel chapter 38 and there the whole scenario concerns all the tribes of Israel after they have undergone a whole series of tribulations and been ingathered from all the nations in the very last days.
This would seem to be after the Messianic Era has begun and after the Temple has been rebuilt. At all events we will be posting out a renewed version of our Commentary to Ezekiel 38 and 39 with more details.

In short there are two phases in the Last Days:
a. Jacob's Trouble (Jeremiah 30:7): Ingathering of Exiles and Wars with Philistines, Edom, Ishmael, etc.
b. Gog and Magog.
We have not gotten past the first phase or even properly entered it.
Before we go on it is worth while considered the arguments of the "other" side and the background to them.
see the item below:

3. Is George Bush Gog? Background
According to Isaiah 11:13-14 Ephraim and Judah should together be fulfilling the prophecy that they,

The USA should be helping and encouraging Israel to transfer all the Palestinian "Arabs" somewhere else. Instead we find that the administration of George Bush seems to be forcing the Jewish Israeli administration of Ariel Sharon to forcibly transfer their own Jewish people out of the southwest Israel (Gaza area) and North Samaria. The administration of George Bush has made itself quite clear that this is only a beginning and that after these expulsions of Jewish settlers more and greater "gestures" on the part of Israel will be expected.
This is against the Commandment of God and a betrayal of the Israelite Nations. All this is against the background of possible international action against the State of Israel being considered by the EU and for all we know contemplated by elements in the administration of George Bush which has proven its ability to put the necessary coalition forces in action. This scenario is reminiscent of that of Gog who is depicted by Ezekiel 38 as leading a mighty coalition of many nations against the Israelite people who have only recently been ingathered from Exile.
If one takes the [mistaken] view that the present Jewish people comprises all the Israelite nation and not just "Judah" then there is a correspondence.
[This scenario however blatantly contradicts the Biblical description on other points]

The name "George" it is suggested could be equated with "Gog" since in Semitic tongues an "r" is sometimes inserted into difficult words for euphonic reasons.
In addition Amnon Goldberg posted us about an URL (that we could not access) where it is claimed the George Bush was once nicknamed "Gugi"
see also;

End of Days
Saturday, March 19, 2005
"...freshly re-elected Gog ben Gog Bush...unlike his father, he is not a vicious hater of Klal Yisrael's revival here in Eretz Yisrael (the Land of Israel). On the contrary he wants to help us in every way. On one hand his father condemns us in front of Pres. Reagan when Gog Sr. was V.P. when Israel bombed Saddam Husein's nuclear reactor in 1981 or 82. The present Gog W. thinks that this form of unilateralism is wonderful. He cites it as a model for his own version of unilateralism. Gog Sr. went to Yale when Jews were not allowed on campus. Gog Jr. may have had a Shomer Shabbas roommate. ( I need a source for this.) Gog Sr. hated Yitzchak Shamir. Gog Jr. values his relationship with A. Sharon.

".. Yet, Gog's administration will always be remembered that he was the first American president to stand up to the pro-Israel lobby over those $10 billion in loan guarantees. I am sure that is one of his sweetest memories... You might say did not VP Gog Sr. plea with Sudanese Pres. Numeiri to permit 1000 Ethiopian Jews languishing to death in the desert to leave for Israel in March of 1985, two months after Operation Moses had been aborted. The answer is yes...

"All this brings us to Gog ben Gog from the territorial inheritance of Magog, one of the 14 descendants of Japhet. Magog, the Mongols, had access to the Bering Strait land bridge which existed for a couple hundred years after the flood. We know that the Mongols were the Ben Magog, for the Arabs in the Middle Ages called the Great Wall of China Al Magog since it was built to keep out the Mongol hordes. Of course, by the time Marco Polo arrives, the Wall had failed in this task. ...While the bulk of Mongol civilization was destroyed before Peter the Great, who expanded the sovereignty of Meshach (Moscow) and Tubal (Siberia) to the Pacific Ocean, vast tracts of Magog territory were conquered by Europeans conquering N. and S. America from the other direction. The Bnei Magog [Children of Magog] in the Americas were wiped out and placed upon reservations. So much for 2 state solutions. And this last point IS the point. As long as America accepted Klal Yisrael's [the Totality of Israel] destiny to return to Eretz Yisrael [Land of Israel] at this time in history, the U.S. is blessed. Just walk into any American suburban shopping mall to try and count all of America's post-WW2 blessings. Yet, as soon as an American president rises up and says that part of Eretz Yisrael is not back in the hands of its rightful owner after the miracle of the 6 Day War, a great treasury of Kitrug (accusation) is opened in Shamayim (heaven). Thus saith the Lord: "I am against thee O Gog from the Land of Magog", for you, Gog, are truly the one sojourning on truly stolen land.
Dov Bar-Leib

Brit-Am Comment: This diatribe is mistaken and seriously in error though it does contain some points of interest.
The complaint upon which it is based is justified.
Judah is being betrayed.
The Government of Judah is being forced to make war on its own people in order not to face a confrontation with the rest of the world.
The Rest of the World in this case is being led by Joseph who has reversed the roles and appears to be selling Judah down the river.

4. Steve Coneglan: Korea and Gog
From: Steve Coneglan
Subject: Korea and Gog

Dear Yair,
I found it necessary to reply to a tentative suggestion that Korea might be identifiable with Gog.
Having lived in Korea for over three years now, and having learnt a fair bit about the Korean psyche, culture, history, and disposition of character firsthand, I find the proposition of relating Gog to the Korean people absurd in the extreme. It's difficult to really describe just how ridiculous such a proposition it is. Let me point out a few things about Korea and Koreans, since your readers probably have little or no real knowledge of either. In so doing, I will endeavour to lay to rest the ridiculous notion of conflating Korea with Gog. Korea is inexorably bound up with America. While there has been the odd resentment toward America expressed by some in the popular media, all Koreans I have met in my time here have been friendly and respectful to my American friends. There is a general awareness that the nation owes its existence to what we term the Israelite nations of the West - America, Canada, New Zealand and Australia. There is a drive to learn English here like no other place in the world. Koreans have been exposed to many of us from the West, and are undoubtedly an open and friendly people. I cannot overstate this point of just how friendly they are. I'm reminded of how New Zealand was when I was a kid, people were always friendly. I've spent the last year and a half living in Seoul. Having spent most of my life in New Zealand, as well as a three year stint in Switzerland, I can state categorically that Korea is much safer than both countries. I would rather walk the streets of Seoul at 3 a.m. than either Auckland or Zurich. People here don't give you an attitude, and they certainly don't have the same selfish attitudes to the extent that infects us descendants of Israel in our wealthy lands. The people show much more self-control and have a more innocent approach to things than we do. Korea is also home to the world's largest single Christian congregation.
The country has more churches than Britain has pubs, and that's truly saying something! The Bible is held in respect here to a far greater extent than it is in my beloved New Zealand. I can talk to students here about the Bible, but mention it back home and students get embarrassed. I have, in all my time here, never heard or read so much as a single anti-Semitic word uttered by a Korean. Not one.
During my stay here I've been treated with nothing but respect. Korea is quite a dynamic country, and there is a youthful energy that is difficult to pinpoint.
Korea has a very long history. Attempting to link the Goguryeo period with the word Gog is puerile in the extreme, since Goguryeo didn't begin until 37 B.C. and Ezekiel wrote more than five centuries earlier.
To restate a point, Korea is strongly allied to the West, and her future is also firmly bound to the West. Many Koreans emigrate to the West, and are known to be quick to adapt and fit in.
There's much more I could say on this. I feel I've only scratched the surface but I want your readers to know that Korea is absolutely NOT Gog and has nothing in common with the nation of which Ezekiel writes under that name. Point.

Now while discussing Gog, I noticed some time back that someone speculated that Gog might be a reference to George Bush. I just about laughed myself silly on that one, too. Do these people really think before they write? I mean, what are the chances that Ezekiel would specifically speak about George Bush? Go figure!
But there might be the tiniest kernel of merit there in that Gog, on the ancient Hebrew tongue, could well have been pronounced in the same way as George. And herein lies a possibility that I have entertained for some fifteen years or more on this particular issue, back to the time just before the Soviet Union disbanded. Ezekiel 38:2 mentions four names that are of extreme interest to the current political situation. They are Gog (Magog means 'the territory of Gog'), Rosh (Gesenius, amongst many, insists that Rosh is the name of a people: see his entry under Gog), Meshech and Tubal, in that order.
It so happens that Gog and Rosh are linguistically identical to Georgia and Russia, the ending of both nations (the suffixed 'ia') indicating 'belonging to, of'.
It also happens that the next two names - Meshech and Tubal - are linguistically identical to Moscow and Tbilisi, the ending of both cities (the 'ow' and the 'isi') likewise indicating 'belonging to, of'.
So what we might possibly have, as unlikely as it might seem in the first instance, is Ezekiel naming two nations AND their capital cities long before they ever existed! The 'princes' and the places over which they rule.
They also fit the rather insistent stipulation that they come from the far north. I've never been to either Russia or Georgia so I definitely can't comment on the nature of the people, but if you're serious about finding out who Gog and Magog really are, my hunch is that that's where you should be looking. Many have already speculated upon this scenario, and I concur with them by and large.
I wouldn't discount China having a possible input, but you've gotta be joking if you think it's Korea. Not a chance.
(Unless you're stipulating North Korea specifically, although that's still dubious. But it could be said that Goguryeo really only encompassed what is now North Korea, as well as northern China, albeit from 37 B.C. onwards. Personally, I doubt it, but you never know. If this is the case, you need to stipulate North Korea, because South Korea does not fit the bill at all).

Could write a lot more on this issue, but I think I'll leave it for now and read through your comments on the relevant chapters of Ezekiel.

All the best for the research and the work at hand.
Stephen Coneglan

Reply by Brit-Am
Stephen Shalom,
Thank you for your excellent reply.

The forces of Gog and Magog will include many nations.
See our renewed commentary to Ezekiel 38 [to be posted out]
In our previous commentary we said:
Maybe the name of a leader and that is how the verses incline but it may also be the name of a nation. There was a country named Gog mentioned in Tibetan records. It appears to have been somewhere in the region of Mongolia. There was also a province named Gogarene in Iberia (Georgia) in the Caucasus Mountains.
Our present understanding is that GOG appears to refer more to a specific people and you gave us the information that this was also the understanding of Gesenius.

The note about Korea was derived from later information.
Ezekiel chapter 38 gives the impression that many of the nations of Europe, Africa, and Asia that will be included in the forces of Gog and Magog that come against Israel.

See our posting "Ezekiel 38 Renewed"

You made the following points:
a. The Koreans that you are acquainted with (i.e. South Koreans) are too good a people to be considered Gog and are strongly pro-Western.
b. "Goguryeo didn't begin until 37 B.C. and Ezekiel wrote more than five centuries earlier".
c. Gog may alternately be Georgia in the Caucasus south of Russia.
"Gog and Rosh are linguistically identical to Georgia and Russia".

In reply I would say as you yourself also noted:
a. The South Koreans are not necessarily included.
Ethnically the South Koreans include Polynesian elements not found in the north.
Apart from that,
Being "nice" has little to do with it really.
Historians point out that the Tartars (who succeeded the Huns) were so successful because individually they were of a passive and pliant nature that enabled them to be welded into an efficient and terrible fighting machine.
The Germans were also considered very nice before WW11. Jews that lived in Germany had trouble believing in what was happening. While the very persecutions and killings of Jews were in progress many Jews believed that the whole thing was like a bad dream that would soon pass away.
The Japanese were known as an extremely polite, sensitive, and delicate people before WW11. The sister of my father who was a nurse in the British Armed Forces and was taken into captivity by the Japanese may have had a different tale to tell. She died in Japanese hands.

b. Ezekiel was prophesying. He foresaw the future but related it in terms familiar to himself and those around him.
The term "Gog" for "Goguryeo" may be applicable if we are to see a revival of the "Goguryeo" entity, see the next point (c).

c. Gog may indeed be Georgia in the Caucasus Mountains south of Russia. We do not know how things will turn out. Georgia however at the moment does not appear to have the potential importance that Ezekiel ascribed to Gog but things could change. Stalin did show "potential" in the said direction and though his father was an Ossetian he was raised in Georgia and considered a Georgian.

Even so, the historical region of "Goguryeo" or Korea as bearer of its name conceivably does have the necessary potential to a greater degree and the Huns who came from "Goguryeo" did set an Historical Prototype suitable to that of Gog.

See our posting "Ezekiel 38 Renewed"

The Forgotten Glory of Koguryo
by Lee Wha Rang
"The Koguryo revival ('boom') hit the right cord with the youth of Korea. Today, 70 million Koreans are crowded into a tiny peninsula. Once upon a time, the mighty Koguryo lorded over a large chunk of today's Chinese territory, and today's Korean nationalists view the 'lost' territory with a hungry eye.
"The glory of Koguryo is a proud heritage of Korea for all Koreans. All of us must do the right thing to preserve and promote all things Koguryo.

See coming postings of Brit-Am Now and a revised commentary to Ezekiel 38 and 39 that we will post shortly.

5. Steve Coneglan: Korea etc.
Dear Yair,

Thank you for your interesting reply to matters concerning the identity of Gog.
I read over the commentary on the relevant chapters in Ezekiel, and you've clearly put quite some research into the possible identities of the evil horde from Ezekiel 38. I agree that 'being nice' is no indicator of identity in this matter.
My point was merely to indicate that Koreans are, in the present day, xenophiles in their attitude toward the West: specifically toward Americans, Aussies, Kiwis, Canadians, Irish and Brits. Could this one day change? Anything is possible, but the ties between Korea and the Israelite nations as we know them are presently strong. It's a very interesting time as I write. The Korean president has just met with his American counterpart, and top of the agenda is North Korea. The issue is relevant to the stability of this area of the world. North Korea has nuclear capability while also excelling at the missile technology necessary to deliver a strike. They have a powerful military, but they have no allies anywhere in the world (China is a thorny issue), have major energy problems, are unable to feed their population, and use the nuclear threat to engage in trying to coerce the West to give them 'freebies'.

And I chanced upon an article yesterday concerning churches in North Korea. They still exist amongst the older people, but are few and far between. The article mentioned that North Korea was once the home of Christianity in Korea, and all the seminaries were in the North. All that changed about the time of the Korean War. Now the seat of Christianity is in the South, and is the most popular religion in Korea, having pushed Buddhism into a few strongholds in the centre of the country.

I see your point from the historical perspective, but remain firm that - in the foreseeable future - South Korea's future is bound to that of the Israelite nations ... with the rider that anything could happen, but not in the foreseeable future. (Many South Koreans do not want the two Koreas to reunify for economic and ideological reasons, but they do want to assist the North due to ethnic ties).

As concerns Goguryeo, we have to be very careful with the term. The first three letters need not imply a root in the Hebrew word Gog; that is, the term is likely not to have been 'Gog-guryeo'. The root is likely to have been more like 'Go-', with guryeo the second root.
In any event, an interesting aside is that the derogatory term for Asians used in the West - the word 'gook' - is Korean, and indicates simply a people, perhaps like the Hebrew word 'goi'. Transliterating the three Korean phonetic characters into Latin script reveals the word 'goog', but to our ear the last sound is more like a 'k' at first hearing. You sometimes see this transliterated as 'k', as, for example, in Hankook tires.
Following this, the Korean name for America is 'Me-gook'. Using only the consonants, this would transliterate as 'm-g-g'. Does this mean America is identifiable as Magog? By no means, but we must be careful in our judgments and pronouncements on these matters, because what we see is a modern and current Korean name - for America! - being equivalent to the unaccented Hebrew Magog, as penned by Ezekiel. I recall somewhere that certain folk attempted to conflate Gog and Magog with America, and this kind of coincidence could be twisted as grist to their mill.

Brit-Am Comment: From what you say, American soldiers applied the term "gook" to Koreans and by extension to all Asians and this term was originally 'goog' which indeed is another way of pronouncing "Gog".

For more on the subject of "Gog" see our coming renewed commentary on Ezekiel 38 and future postings of "Brit-Am Now".

If anyone has anything to add, please write us.

Anything you write will be considered but we cannot guarantee that we will post it no matter how pertinent it may be.
God bless you
Yair Davidiy

Gog and Magog: Ezekiel 38 Renewed
Brit-Am Biblical Commentary


"GOG, THE LAND OF MAGOG": In Hebrew it says: GOG ERETZ HA-MAGOG meaning "Gog, Land of The Magog" or "Gog, the land of Magog" or "Gog, the land which especially belongs to Magog".
"THE CHIEF PRINCE OF MESHECH AND TUBAL" In Hebrew "ROSH MESHECH VE-TUVAL" meaning "Head of" Mesheck and Tubal or "Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal" with "Rosh" being the name of a country such as Russia.

The Commentary of Abarbanel: "Rashi wrote that Gog is the name of ruler and Magog the name of a nation. It appears to me however that this is not so but that Gog is the name of a people and Magog the name of the region and land that Gog dwells in".

"GOG": Maybe the name of a leader as some propose but it may also be the name of a nation and this seems the most probable. There was a country named Gog mentioned in Tibetan records. "The Land of Gog" in Tibetan records appears to have been somewhere in the region of Mongolia. It may have been identical with the ancient kingdom of "Goguryeo".
The Kingdom of "Goguryeo" was centered on North Korea but also included Manchuria, Northern China, and at least part of Mongolia..
The Huns apparently emerged from "Goguryeo".

The Huns through the terror of their cruelty, their discipline, and military tactics succeeded in coercing and persuading numerous other peoples to join up with them and conquer other peoples. The choice was to face utter destruction or join the Huns.
Many nations such as the Ostrogoths and numerous Germanic tribes did join the Huns and fight on their behalf.
Others fled from them. The Anglo-Saxons invasions of England were probably caused by a chain reaction that the Hun invasions of Europe started. We have described some aspects of this process in our books "The Tribes" and "Origin".
The Huns historically DID cause a movement of peoples from the east to the west that is similar to the future movement of Gog and Magog and their hosts described by Ezekiel.
The activities Huns involved the conquests of China and India as well as much of Europe. The Huns therefore did have an effect similar to that of Gog on many of the peoples that will be in the future hosts of Gog and Magog.

The Mongolians and Tartars succeeded the Huns and repeated their performances. Even though they were different peoples it may be said that the Huns, Mongolians, and Tartars all emerged from the same area with similar characteristics.

The name "Goguryeo" could be rendered as "Gog" and this name has evolved into the term Korea. Korea (especially North Korea) may yet play in important role in the future emergence of Gog and Magog.
It has been stated that Goguryeo (also referred to as "Koguryo") "didn't begin until 37 B.C. and Ezekiel wrote more than five centuries earlier".
Ezekiel however was prophesying. Ezekiel foresaw the future but related it in terms familiar to himself and those around him. The term "Gog" for "Goguryeo" may be applicable if we are to see a revival of the "Goguryeo" entity that will give rise to the "Gog and Magog" entity.
Lee Wha Rang ("The Forgotten Glory of Koguryo") says:
"The Koguryo revival ('boom') hit the right cord with the youth of Korea. Today, 70 million Koreans are crowded into a tiny peninsula. Once upon a time, the mighty Koguryo lorded over a large chunk of today's Chinese territory, and today's Korean nationalists view the 'lost' territory with a hungry eye.
"The glory of Koguryo is a proud heritage of Korea for all Koreans. All of us must do the right thing to preserve and promote all things Koguryo.

There was also a province named Gogarene in Iberia (Georgia) in the Caucasus Mountains. Maybe the future leader of the heathen hordes will come from the Land of Gog? Stalin had an Ossetian father but grew up in Georgia and was considered a Georgian.

Gog was also an ancestral figure in the Tribe of Reuben (1-Chronicles 5:4). In some early Christian sources (usually Germanic but also others, see John Mandeville) Gog and Magog were identified with the Lost Ten Tribes. Both were considered the ultimate arch-enemies on the Continent but as potential allies by the English. See the article, " Red Jews or The Lost Ten Tribes".

It should also be mentioned that a giant named "Gog" figures in English folklore and according to one version was a founder of London.

The following excerpt by a researcher who identifies Gog with Tibet is of interest:

Ricardo Lopez Crespo: " Japheth in the Tents of Shem"
[[Ricardo Israel sarel1970@yahoo.com ]]
"Magog's descendants are a Mongoloid (East Asian) type although there's a branch of them that inherited certain Caucasoid physical characteristics (rounder eyes, facial and body hair, and whitish skin pigmentation). Magogites were the Hurrians/Horites who inhabited Mesopotamia and the Levant.
"It is a personal understanding of mine that Gog was to originate from Magog (Ezek. 38: 2). Amenhotep III made a reference to the Hurrian countries of Hanigalbat/Mitanni and Gag ("Encyclopaedia Biblica", pg. 4331), which belonged to the Gugians ("Origins of Nations", Vol. 4, No. 1, ISSN 1322-6428, page 14; History Research Projects, "The Nations of Central Asia and the Middle East", Copyright 1994, 2001, pg. 9; Edwin M. Yamauchi, 1982: 23).

"Gog, Magog, and Agag can be defined as "roof", "overhead covering"
[In Hebrew "GaG" means "roof" and this word could easily be interchanged with the name GOG"] and, alternately, either "enormous", "gigantic", "fiery", or "oceanic". Tibet is often called the "roof of the world" The kingdom of Guge in Ngari was the political and cultural focus for western Tibet in the 10th century and lasted until the 17th century (Xiong Lei, "Archaeology", Volume 56, Number 3, May/June 2003, article "Guge: Tibet's Long-Lost Kingdom").

"In any event, there is no doubt that the Greek 'gigas' (giant) has no Indo-European etymology that respectable lexicographers, such as Julius Pokorny or Pierre Chantraine, care to repeat. Whether or not 'gigas' comes from Semitic, it would seem likely that the double 'g' in Ogygos was influenced by the Greek word. Astour argues that Ogygos derives from the Semitic root 'gg' (to burn, flame).

"Gog and Magog in some ways are identifiable with the Gigantes who [in Grek Mythology] boldly fought the gods. They are prophesied to fail in trying to gain a decisive victory over the Almighty and His Saints and the Israelite Twelve Tribes.
G. A. Harrer and George Howe, "A Handbook of Classical Mythology", pp.
107, 110-"Gigantes (Giants)...[made] war on the gods...and were imprisoned beneath volcanic mountains...Gyges...[was] one of the hundred-handed Giants (Hecatonchires) who warred against the [Olympians]." "

The Brit-Am Commentary continues:

"MAGOG": Some understand this to refer to Mongolian peoples in general. Such nations would include Mongolia, Korea, Japan, Northern China.
One of the Sages however is quoted as identifying "Magog" with Germany.

Shlomoh Koslovski: ""HaGra" wrote, 'Gomer is Germany'According to Targum Yerushalmi Magog is Germany, and according to "HaGra" Magog is in Southern Germany, or south of it."

The different opinions are not necessarily contradictory. Germany is also identified by different sources as Gomer, Ashkenaz (the son of Gomer), Togarmah (the son of Homer), Canaan, and Edom. In addition, we should not forget the traditional British-Israelite identification of Germany with Assyria and the Prussian Germans own identification with the Hittites and Huns. -And if all this is not enough, according to Brit-Am studies (see "Joseph") there was once a strong Israelite element in Germany which mostly moved to North America before the 1900s.
DNA studies roughly speaking would relate the East Germans to the Slavic Peoples and the Aryans of India who are all marked by the R1a haplogroup. Western Germans also include the same R1a marker as well as a mixture of elements similar to those of Scandinavia (I1) and the Celtic West (R1b) which dominates though in Germany these markers usually have their own idiosyncratic "markers" and include additional components from East Asia and elsewhere. The said DNA studies are to be considered as possibilities still subject to revision. The final decision may yet classify them as almost useless. They may well tell us something but exactly what appears to be much more controversial than scientists (as reported in the popular press) would have us believe.

Despite disparate origins the mass of Germans speak the same language and share the same values. They consider themselves one people and have the ability to act as one body imbued with a common spirit of mystical and powerful dimensions that enables them to overawe and subdue other nations.

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