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DNA Article.
Some Came Running!
The Very Recent Movement of YDNA R1b to Western Europe.

17 April 2012, 25 Nissan 5772
1.R1b Not characteristic of Israelites? Environmental Influence.
2. Why DNA Findings Are Used by Brit-Am.
3. R1b in Europe Today.
4. Did R1b Originate in Ancient Egypt?
5. Ancient DNA Findings in General.
6. Earliest R1b DNA Findings in Europe.  The Lichtenstein Cave.
7. Late Appearance of R1b in Western Europe Affirmed Elsewhere.  Extracts from Other Sources.


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Before we begin let us clear up a few points:
1. R1b Not characteristic of Israelites? Environmental Influence.
We do not believe that R1b is necessarily characteristic of Israelites. We doubt it.
We also do not hold that DNA findings are irrefutable. There is much that is not known.
We have mentioned in the past SEVERAL TIMES OVER our opinion that ENVIRONMENTAL INFLUENCE  seems to be a factor in determining DNA haplogroups.
Regarding mt[Female]DNA this is now acknowledged.

BAMAD no.56
#4. Human mtDNA subject to selection by climate?

Male YDNA will also be shown to be ultimately determined by environment.
In the meantime it is not.

2. Why DNA Findings Are Used by Brit-Am.
Brit-Am believes that the Lost Ten Tribes are now to be found mainly amongst Western Peoples.
We do not say that everone in these areas is decended from Israel only that descendants of Israelites are to be found amongst them and that that those descendants of Israel are the Lost Ten Tribes.
In some countries these Israelites helped determine aspects of the national character. The same applies to offshoots of these nations overseas in North America, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa.
In the past DNA was used as a point against us.
It was believed that R1b originated in Spain and therefore since a great many West Europeans have R1b, they could not be descended from Israelites.
Today it is acknowledge that R1b originated in Western Asia, i.e. the Near East i.e. in the Area of  Ancient Israel.
We will show below that according to present knowledge R1b originated in the general region of Ancient Israel and reached Europe on a large scale only after ca. 700 BCE.
We do not know whether this is correct or not.
It may be mistaken. It is however what the experts now believe.
For the time being, at least, it corresponds with our own researchs based on the Bible and History.
In the same way as in the past DNA findings when they disagreed with Brit-Am could be used against us so too may they be used when they correspond to our own conclusions.

From our point of view many of the present-day carriers of R1b must be descended from Israel. Many others may be descended from other groups. The Ten Tribes after being exiled by the Assyrians moved to the north and then to the west, apart from a portion who were taken directly to the west in ships of the Phoenicians and Minoan-Philistines in concert with Assyrian policy.
It could be that parallel with these movements numerous other peoples also were on the move in the same direction.
This would explain the movement of R1b to the west.

At the least the movement of R1b to the west shows the feasibility of Brit-Am beliefs from the point of view of historical reality.

3. R1b in Europe Today.
Today YDNA haplogroup R1b is the most dominant type in Western Europe.
It accounts for mote than 80% of the males in Ireland and Brittany (west France), 60% in England and east Spain, 40% in West Germany, 25% in Scandinavia, etc.
There are also small groups (once associated with the Khazars) to the east of Russia that have large proportions of R1b. The Bashkirs for instance, in Bashkortostan in Central Asia, have about 84% R1b.

4. Did R1b Originate in Ancient Egypt?
Haplogroup R1b (Y-DNA)

A recent DNA test of Tutankhamen, King of Egypt,  indicated that he too belonged to R1b. Consequently the Egyptian authorities refused to allow another test to confirm this finding.
Brit-Am Anthropology and DNA Update
#3. Scottii, King Tutankhamen and a Jewish R1b Variant?

R1b is rare in Africa BUT
In some parts of  the Cameroons in West Africa a few isolated Black African groups have 95% R1b.;f=8;t=007225
These groups speak the Chadic language that has been associated with Egypt.
It is also worth noting that a closely related haplogroup and possible precursor to R1b is R1# which is found amongst a group of Beduins east of the Dead Sea, in Egypt (ca. 10%), and amongst Australian Aborigines (10%) who may also have come from Egypt.
R1b may have arisen in the Middle East. It is however rare amongst Jews though being found in ca. 10% of Sephardic Jews with some groups (such as Syrian Jews) reaching higher rates.

5. Ancient DNA Findings in General.
YDNA is difficult to extract from archaeological findings. MtDNA is much easier. Nevertheless some YDNA from the past has been analyzed.
The List below shows the major findings up to now of YDNA findings for ALL haplogroups.

Ancient Y chromosome studies
[Note: This blog does not react well to my version of Explorer but it does OK on Mozilla.]

Neolithic Linearbandkeramik from Derenburg [2 F*(xG,H,I,J,K), 1 G2a3]
Neolithic Spain [5 G2a, 1 E-V13]
Neolithic Otzi from the Alps [G2a4]
Prehistoric Alaskan [Q3]
Prehistoric South Siberians from Krasnoyarsk and here [10 R1a1, 1 C(xC3)]
Neolithic southwestern France from Treilles [20 G2a, 2 I2a]
Bronze Age from West Liao-River northern China [N-M231, O3-M122]
Bronze Age from Tarim basin in Xiaohe [7 R1a1a]
Prehistoric Paleo-Eskimo from Greenland [1 Q1a]
Ancient Chinese from the Yangtze River [14 O1, 3 O2a, 7 O3*, 5 O3d, 1 O3e, 18 undetermined]
Ancient nomads from Pengyang China [4 Q]
Eneolithic Corded Ware Germans [3 related R1a]
Bronze Age Lichtenstein Cave in Germany [estimated presence I1b2*, R1a1, R1b1c]
Ancient Mongolian [presence of Tat-C in Yakut and Xiongnu]
Ancient Egyin Gol Mongolians and here and here [Y-STR in Table 2 of second study; N3, Q, C]
Ancient Mongolian Xiongnu [1 R1a1]
Aboriginals from Canary Islands [E-M78, E-M81, J-M267, E-M33, I-M170, K-M9, P-M45, R-M269]
Late Antique Basques [4 I, 2 R1b3d, 19 R1(xR1a1), 2 R-M173]
Medieval Hungarians [Two Tat-C out of four]
Medieval Germans from Ergolding, Bavaria, Germany [4 R1b (two siblings), 2 G2a]
Medieval Germans (?) from Usedom, Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, Germany [E1b1b, R1a1a7]
Medieval Swedes from Stockholm [2 I1, probably related]
Recent Frozen Yakuts [8 N1c, 5 non-N1c]

6. Earliest R1b DNA Findings in Europe.  The Lichtenstein Cave.

Note: New findings,
of Bell Beaker Cultural remains
in Thuringia of east central Germany report 2 cases of R1b YDNA.
Esther J. Lee et al.
Emerging genetic patterns of the european neolithic
: Perspectives from a late neolithic bell beaker burial site in Germany

This is dated to ca. 2,8002,000 BCE.

We suspect this is mistaken.
If it is correct then the notes below need to be modified but not necessarily discarded until new information becomes available.
The Bell Beaker culture itself may also have to be dated until after ca. 700 BCE but that is another matter.

Later (23 September 2012) Note:
Since the findings by Esther Lee in Thuringia no new finds have been reported. What is more the findings by Lee seem to have been questioned along the following lines:
Needed substantiation of R1b classification.
Needed confirmation of relation of skeletons to archaeological finds.
Needed re-classification of archaeological finds since they do not fit the classical Bell Beaker characteristic pattern.

The above reservations are impressions we have received but nothing conclusive seems to have been put forward.
If we are wrong on this matter PLEASE INFORM US by e-mail.

Concerning R1b which is the majority (more than 50%) of YDNA in Western Europe according to the above list we find the earliest in ca. 700 BCE from the Lichtenstein Cave in Lower Saxony of  northwest Germany between Denmark and the Netherlands. The DNA was extracted from skeletons that were accompanied by artifacts. Some sources date the finding to ca. 1000 BCE but some of the artifacts were dated later to ca. 700 BCE.
These dates are not that certain and may belong to a later time than that given.

R1b  was found in 3 out of 15 different samples that gave results.
Lichtenstein Cave
Urnfield Culture (c. 1300 BC - 750 BC) finds.

For an article about the Lichtenstein Cave see:

Bronze Age German DNA.
A 252-page doctoral dissertation which covers much of the work (in German) may be downloaded here (Felix Schilz: Molekulargenetische Verwandtschaftsanalysen am prehistorischen Skelettkollektiv der Lichtensteinhole, Dissertation, Gotingen 2006). An English summary is available at dna-forums (Post #44):

Archeological artefacts (pottery, bracelets, arrowheads, a polished dogtooth, a fibula?) date the remains as 1000 to 700 BC (= the Urnfieldsculture of the Late Bronze period).

Culturally the archeological artefacts belong to the Unstrut-Group. This culture blossomed in between the Unstrut river and the Southern Harz mountains. The centre of the culture was the Thuringen-valley where the fertile loes-soil was used for agriculture and raising cattle. The disappearance of the culture coincidences the end of the usage of the Lichtenstein-cave as a burial chamber.
This Untstrut-group developed out of the Funnelbeaker-culture and developped later into the Jastorf-culture (that united all local cultures to a unified 'German' culture).
[. . .]

DNA-reserach, by the team of Dr. Susanne Hummel, showed that all skelettons belonged to one extended family of 4 or 5 generations. This found supports the theory that the cave was used as a burial chamber...

The poster above (hansdb) ran Y-STR profiles reported for the remains through White Athey's haplogroup predictor; he determined most of the males belonged to haplogroup I1b2, two were R1a, and one was R1b. Interestingly:
#In 2006 reseachers took DNA-samples among 220 people who lived for at least 3 generations in the Soethal.
Eleven people had STR-values matched those of Lichtensteiners. Five men belonged to the rare I1b2*-haplotypes; meaning this family-line strechtes beck forr 3000 years in the same region.

From the Lichtenstein Cave Y R1b DNA was found in 3 out of 15 different samples that gave results.
After that we find R1b amongst Late Antique Basques (500s-600s CE i.e. in Christian times) where it is  found in 2 out of 24 samples.

Medieval Germans from Ergolding, Bavaria, Germany [4 R1b (two siblings), 2 G2a] in 600s CE (southwest Germany) where it is 4 out of 6. Here it is higher than the present rate. G2a is now rare in Europe
but common in the Caucasus.

At all events we see that R1b at the beginning was rare. Before ca. 700 BCE there is NO record of it in western Europe but there may have been in Egypt.
Over time its presence in Western Europe increases.

7. Late Appearance of R1b in Western Europe Affirmed Elsewhere.  Extracts from Other Sources.
I don't really know when R1b exploded in frequency across Central and Western Europe, but I suspect it was during the Bronze or Iron Age.

How did R1b come to replace most of the older lineages in Western Europe ?
URL Admits that R1b came from Central Asia and Middle East and rerplaced older Yhaplogroups in Europe. Claims this was a male-dominated event and that local females remained.
Until recently it was believed that R1b originated in Western Europe due to its strong presence in the region today. The theory was that R1b represented the Paleolithic Europeans (Cro-Magnon) that had sought refuge in the Franco-Cantabrian region at the peak of the last Ice Age, then recolonised Central and Northern Europe once the ice sheet receded. The phylogeny of R1b proved that this scenario was not possible, because older R1b clades were consistently found in Central Asia and the Middle East, and the youngest in Western and Northern Europe. There was a clear gradient from East to West tracing the migration of R1b people.... This age of the main migration from the shores of the Black Sea to Central Europe also happened to match the timeframe of the Indo-European invasion of Europe, which coincides with the introduction of the Bronze-Age culture in Western Europe, and the spread of Italo-Celtic and Germanic languages.

R1b Dominance Only from Bronze Age;wap2
Thus far, the oldest R1b in Europe that we know about is a single R1b individual from the Lichtenstein Cave discovery, circa 1,000 BC. That's Bronze Age.
Next in age come the bodies from the Aldaieta cemetery in the Basque country in Spain, but they date only from the early medieval period (6th century).
The bodies of the warriors in chain mail in the cave in Ergolding in Bavaria are from the 7th century.
That's it: one Bronze Age R1b, then nothing until the 6th and 7th centuries A.D.

Ancient y-dna results recently obtained from Neolithic sites at Treilles in France, Derenburg in Germany, and in Spain have included G2a, I2a, F*, and E1b1b, but NO R1b. Of course, Otzi, the famous "Ice Man" of the Italian Alps, is G2a4.

G2a seems to be the common denominator in all of these recent discoveries. Not only is Otzi G2a4, but G2a was recovered from remains at all three of the other sites mentioned above. I2a was recovered at Treilles, F* at Derenburg, and E1b1b in Spain.

As it is famously said, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, but where is the R1b? One would think that the single most common y haplogroup in modern Europe would have shown up in at least one of these sites, if R1b was present in Neolithic Europe.

Of course, ancient y-dna results are still scarce, and some Neolithic, Mesolithic or perhaps even Paleolithic European R1b could turn up tomorrow.

Does anyone here think that is likely, that R1b was actually in Europe prior to the Bronze Age and that what we have seen thus far with ancient y-dna is misleading us?

It is possible to get bogged down in technical considerations.
The bottom line is that R1b has not been found in Europe from before 750 BCE.
Based on the limited findings we have at present it would seem that R1b did not reach its present prominence in Europe until long after the first findings.
R1b originated in the Middle East.
It is now the majority YDNA haplogroup of all nations we identify as having a significant degree of Ten Tribes ancestry and where Israelite Characteristic were to dominate.
In Europe nearly all those countries with the most R1b are those we identify as Israelite and head the list as having the highest proportions of R1b in their populations.
Wales 92%, Ireland 85-90%, France 75%, England ca. 70%.
Exceptions include Spain and Italy (neither of which we consider  Israelite nations)  with ca. 75% R1b each.

Some Israelite Nations have relatively low levels of R1b DNA e.g. Norway has only ca. 28%.
It is worth noting that Italy was overwhelmed with non-Israelite immigrants from the Middle East in the early Christian Era.
Two of the sources quoted above suggested that R1b came to the west in the Bronze Age.
The Bronze Age in Europe ended in ca. 700 BCE. The dating to the Bronze Age however is only a rationalization attempting to reconcile conventional historical understandings to DNA findings.
A much later date would also correspond with the DNA.
The Ten Tribes were at first part of the Twelve-Tribed Kingdom of Israel.
They separated from the Tribes of Judah and Benjamin and set up their own Kingdom. Later they were exiled by the Assyrians.
The Exile in stages occurred according to conventional dating in ca. 730-720.
A portion of the Exiles reached the west shortly after the time of their Exile. Others came centuries later.
They moved from the east to the west.
Numerous other peoples probably moved at the same time in the same direction.
The movement of R1b from the east to the west may reflect these movements.

The Tribes - 4th Edition Full Cover Spread.

All truth passes through three stages: First it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860).

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