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Brit-Am Now no. 1157
Date 21 Iyar 5768 26 May 2008
Contents:
1. Bo Ingvar Ronn: More On Swedes and the Sea
2. Brian
Patmore: Edom is mixed up with different peoples
3. Craig Blackwood: the image in Daniel are all
Edomite empires
4. Steven Collins: Israel and Judah will be reunited
5. The Brit-Am Take on Recent Issues: Medes, Israelites, and Feet of the Statue
(a) The Medes and Israel
(b) The feet of Mixed Clay and Iron
6. Scotland: Romans and a link to Egypt - but Scots came from Ireland
7. New Web Site of 
Orjan Svensson


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1. Bo Ingvar Ronn: More On Swedes and the Sea
re Brit-Am Now no. 1152
#1. Orjan Svensson:  The Swedes are and were a Sea-Faring People
http://www.britam.org/now/1152Now.html
Kindly, read one of the best novels about Vikings, historically accurate and filled with adventures. "The Long Ships" ("Roede Orm" in Swedish) written by Frans G. Bengtson.
Read also the book "The Last Grain Race" by Eric Newby crewmember and adventure writer. This is a true story about a voyage around the world just before WW II by the Finnish 4-masted barque "Moshulu" from Mariehamn in Aland. This book describes well the life and adventures on board a Nordic merchant sailing ship some 70 years ago.
 
Today, many Scandinavians prefer to spend money on a new boat instead of new car. The salt is still in the blood.
 
Shalom
/ Bo Ingvar Ronn / Gothic sailor in Mauritius, Indian Ocean



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2. Brian Patmore: Edom is mixed up with different peoples
From: Brian Patmore <manco_yupanqui@bigpond.com>
Re: Brit-Am Now no. 1156
#4. Michelle Bowie: "All we have to do is read scripture"
http://britam.org/now/1156Now.html#Michelle

Shalom Yair,

Michelle B has hit it on the head.

Edom is mixed up with different peoples in the various places where it has a presence, in Europe, Middle East or anywhere.
This stands to reason.
I still maintain that the Obadiah 1:15-18 prophesy relates to the so called Palestinian situation.
No one else fits the description so well as the Palestinians.
Their ancestors have always hung around the neighbouring areas or nations, even though they themselves do not seem to have any real legitimate calim to the land looking at the historical and biblical perspectives.
The menace is as real as it can get and will trigger an eventual full response from Judah and Joseph together.
The European version of the same menace, working to unite and use all Europe against Israel, is just as real a menace but will be dealt with as well.
Oil is the magnet that attracts Europe, China, Russia, Persia/Iran etc to the Middle East and they will all use Israel as the justification for entering the area and then when they take possession of the oil and squabble over it! What is next? I guess the usual course of action that which they always take to solve problems.
I guess that the use of "scalar technology" will make the defence of Israel possible, but I do not see nuclear solutions as being practicable in this future theatre of war. Population centres are too close to hand wherever you turn for this to be considered.
Both Judah and Joseph possess this technology and can use it.
Interesting, but leave all to Hashem !!!
Shalom,
Brian
Brisbane



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3. Craig Blackwood: the image in Daniel are all Edomite empires
From: Craig Blackwood <cablack@westnet.com.au>
RE: Brit-Am Now no. 1155
Brit-Am Now no. 1154
#1. Steven Collins: Persian Kings Were Gentile Non-Israelites
http://britam.org/now/1154Now.html#Steven

Shalom Yair

I am a little gobsmaked over Steben Collins Feet of Iron mixed with clay prophecy.  I have just completed my own bible study on this passage and had come to similar conclusions as Steve.

I came to see that clay represents the apostate Israelite and rock represents the faithful Israelite.  It seems Gods plan to make what was once a stable and indestructible image very vulnerable to destruction.  No builder in his right mind will undermine such an edifice with such unstable product, iron mixed in clay.  Such materials don't mix, but it seems that the divine wisdom of God induces the foolishness of these ungodly man made kingdoms.  The image is destroyed by foolishness, as one great teacher told the story about wise builders build on ROCK foundations and foolish builders build on SAND.

Zec 12:2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.
Zec 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
Zec 12:4 In that day, saith the LORD, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness.
Zec 12:5 And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, The inhabitants of Jerusalem shall be my strength in the LORD of hosts their God.
Zec 12:6 In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.
Zec 12:7 The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.
Zec 12:8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.


Psa 102:13 Thou shalt arise, and have mercy upon Zion: for the time to favour her, yea, the set time, is come.
Psa 102:14 For thy servants take pleasure in her stones, and favour the dust thereof.
Psa 102:15 So the heathen shall fear the name of the LORD, and all the kings of the earth thy glory.

It seems that God will use an apostate, weakened and vulnerable Israel for His eternal purposes.

The other conclusion that the image in Daniel are all Edomite empires.  The Babylonian, Persians, Greek and Roman empires were ruled by Edomite Elite. The prime mover for evil against modern day Israel is modern day Edom.

Regards

Craig Blackwood



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4. Steven Collins: Israel and Judah will be reunited
From: Steve Collins <scollins@sio.midco.net>
Re Brit-Am Now no. 1155
#2. Bob and Jacquie: Thanks to Steven Collins
http://britam.org/now/1155Now.html#Bob

 
Shalom Yair,
 
My thanks to Bob and Jacquie for their kind comments on my contributions. I'll also respond briefly to Can Rea's and Mark Robinson's comments.


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I won't repeat my original response to Cam Rea's article, but I do want to stress the point that human reasoning must always yield to scriptural authority. Re: the Israelites, they were taken as slaves into the region of the Medes by the Assyrians. The later Medes would also know the Israelites were the descendants of the Assyrian slave population that was conquered and relocated into their midst. Also, the Medes are known to be the descendants of Madai, a son of Japheth (Genesis 10:2) so the Medes have been a nation since the tower of Babel when God gave each nation a new language and scattered them across the earth (Genesis 11:9). Both Young's Analytical Concordance and Strong's Concordance state that the Medes descended from Madai (see "Madai" in the former work and "Madai" or "Media" in the latter). Young's dates the origin of the Medes to 2320 BC. It is clear from scripture that the Medes cannot be Israelites. II Kings 18:11 confirms that the Medes were already a distinct, non-Israelite people who were already living in South-Central Asia before the exiles of the ten tribes were forcibly moved and resettled into the land of the Medes. Since the Bible refers to the Medes as being in Asia before the ten tribes were moved into Asia, the Medes had to be non-Israelites. The reference to "Darius the Mede" in Daniel 11:1 must be applied consistently as applying to the descendants of Madai. However, if Cam wishes to mention the Manda, he will find me in agreement re: an Israelite origin for the Manda. I mention the Manda-Israelite connection on p. 214 of my book, Israel's Lost Empires. That same page mentions an entry in the Encyclopedia Britannica  (1943 Ed., see "Babylonia and Assyria," Vol. 2, p. 857) which relates that some people confuse the term "Manda" with the people of "Madai/Medes." The Manda and Medes are two distinct groups.


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Concerning Mark Robinson's comments, both the Roman Empire and the final ten toes are, themselves, the inheritors of an original Babylonian tradition. The vision seen by Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel 2 shows all the subsequent empires had their beginnings in the empire of Babylon. As one of my website's articles mentions, the Babylonians invented such things as the banking system, lending money on collateral, compound interest, a futures market, etc. Does that sound like the economic system of the western world/NATO, EU with banking/commercial centers in New York, London and Zurich? It certainly does. The Babylonian economic system is the beating heart of the modern western world. My article about the Babylonian origins of the western world's economic system can be found at: http://www.stevenmcollins.com/html/what_kind_of_captivity.html
 
In understanding the meaning of Daniel 2, we have to be consistent in applying the composition of the image to its various prophesied nations. Daniel plainly told Nebuchadnezzar that he, the king of the Babylonian empire, was linked to the head of Gold. The following two kingdoms have long been identified in prophecy as the Medo-Persian and Greek empires. Daniel 11:1-4 supports this identification. The "iron" kingdom of Daniel 2 has long been identified as the Roman Empire, which followed the Greek empire on the world stage. The separation of the image's two legs into two legs of iron was fulfilled quite graphically in the division of the Roman Empire into a Western and Eastern Roman Empire. The "iron" in the feet and toes is a continuation of the "iron" in the legs so it must mean the latter-day peoples and nations of the Roman Empire (if we apply the symbolism consistently). The "clay" is a biblical symbol for the ten tribes of Israel, as Jeremiah 18:4 indicates.
 
Ezekiel 37:15-28 does prophesy that Israel and Judah will be reunited, but it prophesies that this will occur when ancient King David is resurrected from the dead (verses 24-25). This indicates the complete reunion of Israel and Judah will take place when the resurrection of the righteous dead occurs. We do not know the degree to which Israel and Judah will draw closer together in our time. Based on historical precedent, I do not think all the ten tribes will be all be regathered to the Holy Land (albeit Ezekiel 48 indicates all tribes will at least have a contingent present in the Holy Land in the Messianic Age). Even when all the tribes were united under Kings David and Solomon, the Israelites colonized widely to other continents and were living in the British Isles, Europe, Spain and Gibraltar, North Africa, North America, etc. As my books document, the ancient Israelite Kingdom at its zenith dominated the globe (historians have called the alliance of King Hiram of Tyre and Kings David and Solomon of Israel the "Phoenician Empire"). In the Messianic Kingdom, I suspect the ten tribes will be living in all the far-flung places they did when King David first lived. Indeed, they are living in most of those places right now!
 
Steve Collins



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5. The Brit-Am Take on Recent Issues: Medes, Israelites, and Feet of the Statue In historical research one has to sometimes play around with ideas, to take into account different facts and possibilities and to treat with respect contradictory evidence.
Recently Cam Rea published an article on our site Cam Rea: "WERE THE EARLY GREAT KINGS OF PERSIA ISRAELITES?"
http://www.britam.org/achaemenids.html
This article was mainly concerned with the personages of Cyrus and Darius but it had implications for the Medes as we meet them in history in general.
This was clarified by another letter by Cam Rea on this subject:
Brit-Am Now no. 1155
#1. Cam Rea:
The Early Median and Persian kings were indeed Israelite
http://www.britam.org/now/1155Now.html#Cam
Steven Collins in reply was adamant that the Persians and Medes as we know them were Children of Japhet and not Israelites.

Brit-Am Now no. 1154
#1. Steven Collins: Persian Kings Were Gentile Non-Israelites
http://britam.org/now/1154Now.html#Steven
Our position is that both were right. At all events Israelite Exile were in the area and involved with the peoples in question. Any discussion or even controversy that arouses interest in the subject and brings more facts and valuable points of view to the surface is to be welcomed.
Below is our own opinion. We naturally consider this opinion to be the correct one but it is one connected with historical research and a consideration of possibilities and so may be mistaken or subject to fundamental revision.


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(a) The Persians, Medes and Israel
Cyrus was spoken of as a kind of proto-type of the Messiah Son of Joseph.
We have spoken of Cyrus elsewhere:
See:
Cyrus
http://www.britam.org/Proof/Joseph/joCyrus.html
Cyrus belonged to the Clan of  Pasargadae or Pasar-Gadae.
This name can mean "Sons-of-Gad" (De Gobineau) or
Tents-of(Ghrishman)-Gad.
It may be that Cyrus was descended from Israel. Or it may be not and the term Pasargadae may be due to some kind of historical association.
Foir details and historical background see "The Tribes".
The same applies to Darius though in this case the question is more problematic.
Even so, whatever their ancestral identities these monarchs ruled over non-Israelite people and are identified with them.
We have a similar case concerning the previous monarchs of Europe.
Most of these rulers were related and in a genealogical sense belonged to one big family. Some say they were descended from Esau while others say they were of the family of David.< Who knows if both opinions are not correct with the Royal Lines receiving input from both directions?
At all events these Royal Houses identified thoroughly with the peoples they ruled over.
Their very characters, attributes, and actions reflected those they ruled over rather than anything else!
The Medes are the Medes and are descended from Japhet.


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(b) The feet of Mixed Clay and Iron
In the Brit-Am Commentary on Daniel we tended to the opinion (based on that of the Classical Rabbinical Commentators) that it indicated a future attempted union of Ishmael (Islam and the Arabs) with Edom meaning Christian Europe or a "Eurabia".
http://britam.org/Daniel/daniel2.html



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6. Scotland: Romans and a link to Egypt - but Scots came from Ireland
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/article3965241.ece

Magnus Linklater

The origins of Scotland are enveloped in the mists of antiquity. The earliest written accounts are to be found in the works of the Roman historian Tacitus, whose father-in-law invaded southern Scotland with the 9th Roman Legion in 81 AD.

At that time Scotland was inhabited by tribes of Celtic origin, notably the Picts, about whom very little is known but who left behind many distinctive stone carvings.

Around the 6th century, the Picts converted to Christianity and some of their carvings show links with the Middle Eastern Coptic church. This image (left), of two hands receiving a loaf of bread from a raven, depicts StAnthony and StPaul the Hermit in the desert. It is found on a monastery wall in Egypt and a Pictish stone at St Vigeans, Dundee.

Originally referred to as Alba or Alban, the name Scotland is said to derive from the Scots, a warlike Celtic race from Northern Ireland who invaded southwestern Scotland in the 3rd and 4th centuries and established the kingdom of Dalriada. The first king to unite Scotland was Kenneth MacAlpin, who seized power in 843 AD and ruled all the country north of the Forth.



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7. New Web Site of  Orjan Svensson
http://www.dinbok.com/
Very nice site.
Aesthetically pleasing, modern, attractive,
simple lines yet sophisticated,
contains important information of interest.


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See also:
"Scandinavian Secrets" by Orjan Svensson
http://www.britam.org/orjanbook.html

Articles by Orjan Svensson
Orjan
http://www.britam.org/Questions/QuesOrjan.html
Who is Orjan Svensson?
Archaeology
Contemporary Scandinavia and Israel
Linguistics
Gematria
History
Custom
Runes







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[1-Kings 19:12] AND AFTER THE EARTHQUAKE A FIRE; BUT THE LORD WAS NOT IN THE FIRE: AND AFTER THE FIRE A STILL SMALL VOICE.

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