DNA R1b1c7



Map below shows distribution of R1b1c7 in UK and Ireland
Source of Map:R1b1c7 Haplogroup Project

Map below shows distribution of R1b1c7 in Ireland revealing concentration in Northwest, i.e. Donegal and Sligo
Source of Map:
"A Y -Chromosome Signature of Hegemony in Gaelic Ireland"
Laoise T. Moore,''` Brian McEvoy,''* Eleanor Cape,' Katharine Simms,' and Daniel G. Bradley'
'Smurfit Institute of Genetics and 'School of Histories and Humanities, Trinity College, Dublin
Nial Ireland


Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 03:28:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: Lochlan@aol.com
Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] Ui Neill Dynasty - Why some O'Neills aren't M222+

In a message dated 9/20/2007 5:08:35 P.M. Central Standard Time,  pconroy63@gmail.com writes: I just noticed this very interesting PDF the other day - many  regular readers may have seen it  already: http://www.jogg.info/22/ONeill.pdf It basically finds  evidence of a non-paternal event in the O'Neill line. As one who has studied the O'Neills for years I have to say this didn't  surprise me much.  Seamus O Ceallaigh (Gleanings from Ulster History, 1952)  pointed out several problems in the O'Neill pedigree and history, which is based  largely on a 17th century document, the Lebor Eoghanach.  If anyone would  like to read the article you can find it  here: http://members.aol.com/Mlochlan/ulster.htm To be  fair, O Ceallaigh also found severe problems with the history and pedigree of  the McLaughlins, the closest kin to the O'Neills.  If these problems exist  in the line of the major kings of the north of ireland one can only  imagine the problems in lesser lineages. In a nutshell, the  problem with the O'Neills is this: The O'Neill surname first arose  with descendants of Domhnall 'of Armagh', the High King of Ireland, who died 980  A.D.  For two or three generations his descendants, all called Ua Neill in  the annals, held the kingship of Aileach.  Then after the death of Aedh  Athlaman and Flaithbertach an trostain Ua Neill (1033 and 1036) the O'Neills  were completely eclipsed by their closest kin, the McLaughlins.  The  McLaughlins held the kingship of Aileach (ie, the north of Ireland) for the next  150 years, completely excluding the O'Neills from the succession.  During  this long, dark night of the O'Neills not a single O'Neill was named king of  anything in the annals; their pedigree is completely untraceable in the annals;  and obviously in error when compared to the much better authenticated pedigree  of the McLaughlins. Then suddenly, from nowhere, pops up Aedh Ua  Neill 'the lazy youth', who was suddenly named King of Aileach despite the now  interloper status of the O'Neills in the succession. Aedh's kingship didn't last  long - he was slain in 1177 by two Mclaughlins who then regained the  kingship.  But from then on the O'Neills are mentioned again in the annals  and by 1241 A.D. had wrested the kingship from the McLaughlin rivals once and  for all. The point is the O'Neill pedigree and history are  unverifiable for a period of 150 years or about five generations in the  annals.  And if there was some kind of NPE event it most likely occurred  during this time period because after the time of Aedh 'the lazy youth' Ua Neill  the O'Neill pedigree is well traceable in the Irish annals. In  later centuries there were rumors aplenty about O'Neill  bastards. Plantation of Ulster Rev. George Hill p.  22 "Conn O'Neill, who accepted an English earldom in the year 1542, and  died in 1559.  This Ulster prince fell prey to certain English servitors,  including the Bagenalls, who were able to intermeddle with his family affairs,  and who eventually induced him to adopt the son of a Dundalk blacksmith, named  Kelly, to the exclusion of his only legitimate son, Shane O'Neill. One of  our best irish archaeological authorities - O'Donovan - believed that Con  O'Neill's heir was really the son of a blacksmith, and this his [the heir's]  son, who is known in history as Hugh O'Neill, second earl of Tyrone, was not,  therefore, an O'Neill at all. Could a fairly late event such as this  have resulted in the largest group of O'Neills in Ulster who are not  R1b1c7? 17th century English writers often had derogatory things to say  about the O'Neills (Fynes Moryson's [1566-1630] The Irish Sections  - Unpublished Itinerary, ): "And so the Oneales boldly rushed into  the possessions the English had left voyde in Ulster, and not only the true  Oneales, but every bastard warranted by his mother to call himselfe Oneale, if  he were more bold and bloody then the rest, did from that time beare themselves  for lords of Ulster." "They have likewise a ridiculous cutstome, that  maryed women give Fathers to their Children when they are at the point of  death.  Insomuch as they have a pleasant tale, that a yonger son hearing  his mother give base Fathers to some of his bretheren, besought her with teares  to give him a good father.  but commonly they give them fathers of the  Oneales, O Donnells or such great men, or at least those that are most famous  for licentious boldness.  and these bastard Children ever after follow  these fathers, and thinking themselves to descend of them, will be called  swordmen, and scorning husbandry, and manual Arts live only of rapine and  spoyle."   The problem with the large group of O'Neills in Ulster who are not  R1b1c7 though is they seem remarkably compact, tightly clustered in DNA showing  a probable single common ancestor.  This doesn't seem to fit well with the  English claims of irish women on their deathbeds giving their sons famous names  or with various unrelated males proclaiming themselves to be O'Neills.   The following quote from the O'Neill article would seem to place the  NPE event closer to the dark night of the O'Neills than to any more recent  bastard of later centuries: ". It is noted that, using only their 80 O'Neills and haplotypes within one  mutational step or less of ONMH, McEvoy and Bradley estimated the TMRCA of about  1,100 years (about 900 CE), very close to the time frame of the grandson of  Niall Glundubh, Domhnall ??of Armagh ??, said to be the first to use the surname  O ??Neill. "   If we could ever find an O'Neill chief to test some new light might  be shed on this issue. John