Reply to a German Apologist
Re Edom
http://www.britam.org/Questions/QuesEdom.html
Esau and the Edomites
http://www.britam.org/Edom/EsauContents.html
Derek W. wrote:
Re: Your Article - Joseph Defeats Esau
http://britam.org/Proof/Joseph/joEdom.html
Please allow me to point out that your identification of Edom is erroneous.
The Bible prophecies are all literal except where it specifically states that it is a parable. Edom is the Jordan and Saudi area.
(Psalms 83:5-8 (HCSB) 5 they have conspired with one mind; they form an alliance against You. 6 the tents of Edom and the Ishmaelites, Moab and the Hagrites, 7 Gebal, Ammon, and Amalek, Philistia with the inhabitants of Tyre. 8 Even Assyria has joined them; they lend support to the sons of Lot. Selah)
When the Romans planned to invade "Germany" (The Northern Part of Gaul) their scouts reported that these people were the ONLY pure race who have not mixed with others. Thus they were well-disciplined, industrious and staunch patriots. To say they are a mixed race looks like an effort to rewrite history.
I think the reference to Germany is largely influenced by the overwhelming propaganda against those people. To follow the lead of the Anti Defamation League, one should have a rule that Germany should not be mentioned without mentioning the role that Theodore Herzle's organisation had in starting both world wars.
Just go and look at the real archives; don't believe what you see written in English. Although the latest laws in France and Germany prohibits the study of the holocaust, they could not prohibit studying all records.
Germany was the first European country to grant full citizenship to Jews (already in 1825). Previously she also afforded protection to Christians who were murdered en masse by the Vatican followers; the only other country to do so was Holland. England was hardly interested. Why do you think the Church Fathers went to Americas: To find freedom for their Christian faith.
Lastly, No other western country has spilled more blood of their own brethren (ten tribes) than Britain.
Kind Regards
Dirk W.
Beyond The Great Rivers of Cush
Brit-Am Reply:
Shalom,
Normally we would not answer your letter but for every rule there is an exception.
The content of what you wrote only affects the message of Brit-Am tangenitally.
Esau was born red-haired and hairy.
Genesis 25:25 "Now the first came forth, red all over like a hairy garment; and they named him Esau."
Esau was a hunter,
"Esau was a skillful hunter, a man of the field" (Genesis 25:27).
Edom was destined to become a great and wealthy nation and to live by the sword i.e. to be noted for martial potency.
Genesis 27:
38 And Esau said to his father, "Have you only one blessing, my father? Bless me, also, O my father!'
And Esau lifted up his voice and wept.
39 Then Isaac his father answered and said to him:
' Behold, your dwelling shall be of the fatness of the earth,
And of the dew of heaven from above.
40 By your sword you shall live,
And you shall serve your brother;
And it shall come to pass, when you become restless,
That you shall break his yoke from your neck.'
Esau vowed to kill Jacob (Genesis 27:41).
Esau (Edom) bore children from Hittite, Canaanite, and Ishmaelite women (Genesis 26:34 36:1-4).
Esau gave rise to sons and grandsons (Genesis 36:15-30) who are given the title "aluf" (translated as "duke" or "chieftain") meaning "leader" i.e. the frueher" principle. This concept was endorsed by the Nazis but had already been part of German military doctrine.
German military discipline on the one hand could be quite draconic. Thousands were executed for disobeying orders etc.
On the other hand due to the high level of training and motivation of their officers and NCOs a great deal was left to the individual initiative of the men on the spot.
It was the Allies who were relatively under-trained and lacking in proficiency. Because of this, Allied discipline in practice was more al-encompassing than that of the Germans and often stilted attempts at individuality.
It is true that an entity known as Edom existed to the south east of Israel. This area was important in the ethno-genesis of Esau.
Nevertheless from the beginning offshoots from Edom were to be found elsewhere e.g. SAUL OF REHOBOTH BY THE RIVER (Euphrates) [Genesis 36:37] reigned somewhere in Mesopotamia. The Temenu (from Temen of Edom) were important in early Greek and Roman tradition.
The Spartans and Romans had quite an impressive history and they along with some of the Germanic groups owed much to Edomite infusions. The direct lineal connection between Esau and most of the Germans may not really exist. It may affect only a small portion of the German people who have had incommensurate influence? Or it may be greater than we think?
Whatever the case, the influence is there and it can be determinative.
You said the Romans called the Germans, "the ONLY pure race who
have not mixed with others".
I am not aware of the Romans noting the purity of the German lineages.
If they did they were mistaken, at least according to DNA.
And if they really did, so what?
What is the big deal?
I remember in my youth in Australia hearing the son of a German immigrant in the name of his
father boast that the German language was more pure (i.e. free of foreign
accretions) than any other. I doubt that this is true but if it is, does that
mean it is better?
Technically the most pure people in Europe in the ethnic sense are probably the
Lithuanians and Latvians etc.
And what good does it do them?
Are they noted for anything more than others?
The vehemence many Germans (even liberal ones) often express in defending their
ethnic unity is a frequent surprise to foreigners.
It belies the evidence of physical reality (i.e. what can be seen from physical
types) as well as that of history, archaeology, and DNA findings.
You accused "Theodore Herzle's organisation" of starting both
world wars!!
By "Theodore Herzle's organisation" you mean the early Zionists.
Before World War 1 the Zionists were not as important as their own propaganda
claimed.
Theodore Herzl, their leader, did not even enjoy the benefits of
full-time employment. He was a journalist for an Austrian newspaper.
Herzl was constantly worrying that his employers were about to dismiss him and
jeopardize support of his family.
These worries may have hastened his death.
Germany was ruled by German aristocrats and business tycoons and later also by underworld sewage.
They bear much of the responsibility for whatever benefits and/or misfortunes the Germans experienced.
For better or for worst the influence of the Jews was really quite marginal.
It could be that the Gentiles subconsciously want the Jews to be more than they are?
Maybe the Gentiles are disappointed that the Jews are not trying to take over the world? That the Jews do not want to tell them what to do? Perhaps this disappointment is sublimated into fantasies of Jewish plots to rule mankind? Alternately it may reflect Edomite ancestry on the part of the Gentiles in question and reflect what they feel the "Chosen People" should be doing?
Historically, the Jews of Germany, Austria, and Hungary were
super-patriotic.
They performed far above the average in fighting for their countries.
This earned them death for themselves, their children, and womenfolk. Even those
who had been severely injured in military service were dispatched. The ones who
killed them were those on whose behalf they had been fighting.
Members of the family of my mother in Germany and France were killed by the Nazi
Germans.
Every Jew in Europe has similar experiences.
We (i.e. I and others of my acquaintance) have met Germans and others who were
in World War -2. We are often not recognized as Jews.
Not every German is a Holocaust denier. Some of them seem quite proud of what
was done.
They were not the only ones responsible. They received enthusiastic and jubilant
assistance from many others in Europe.
Your attitude of attributing World Wars 1 and 2 to the Zionists is quite popular
today in Europe and the USA.
It is known as Conspiracy Theory. The Arabs also believe in it strongly.
We do not blame all Germans. There were and are good Germans.
There were those who were mislead or too weak to resist the elites and
gutter-breeds that ruled over them.
They were conditioned over centuries by the lap-pup and hound-dog society around
them.
A lot of people in their youth or weaker moments, due to peer pressure etc, do
things they would not normally do.
Even so, the Bible requires us take responsibility and if we transgress make
atonement.
In the Middle Ages Germany at times was more or less united under the Holy Roman
Empire that also ruled over Austria, Hungary, Bohemia (Czechia), etc. Despite Holy Roman Empire hegemony,
in practice Germany for most of the time was
divided into ca.300 independent or semi-independent polities.
These were often openly hostile to each other.
In 1871 the King of Prussia became the Kaiser of the German Empire. This was the
real beginning of the nation of Germany as we now know it.
The German People and German national consciousness had however existed for centuries befrehand.
Jews had been in Germany since before the arrival of most Germans.
They were never treated well as far I can tell.
Anything and everything they did or tried to do on behalf of Germany and the
Germans was turned against them.
There is a book about the Jews in Germany. It is entitled "The Pity of it All"
by Amos Elon. Based on a quick read through some time ago, I would not say
the work is exceptional one way or the other. The title however does express a feeling received from the
historical experience of German Jews, i.e. one big waste of time.
[This is not altogether true. German Jews have much to be proud of.]
As for Britain, it is true that there does not exist any (or hardly any) nation
in the world that Great Britain did not best in warfare.
The British record was still, by the standards of the periods in question, not
so bad.
Incidentally our movement, Brit-Am, has (or had?) some supporters and
sympathizers in Germany today.
In addition, quite a few of our supporters in North America and South Africa etc are at least
partly of German origin.
Our researches indicate that those Germans who emigrated to North America and
elsewhere in the 1870s and 1880s etc were of different stock from the bulk of
the Germans who remained behind.
See Also:
Preparation for Moloch?
A Preliminary Overview of Germany, World War-2, and the Holocaust.
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